Possible relocation of HVO to Oahu

[MarkD]

I've got a bunch of question based on my assumption that HVO and Jagger Museum occupied the same building. But I could be wrong. Is that correct or not?

If not, where was the HVO building in relation to Jagger?

[Radiopeg]

I'd like to keep HVO here. Jobs, speakers available for the community, easy access for the scientists if something does occur. Keep them here.

Peace and long life

[Obie]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

I've got a bunch of question based on my assumption that HVO and Jagger Museum occupied the same building. But I could be wrong. Is that correct or not?

If not, where was the HVO building in relation to Jagger?

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Jagger is on the left, HVO has the tower and is on the right.

https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/vsc/images/im...mg2971.jpg

[MarkD]

Thanks. Questions:

1) Why is discussion seeming to focus solely on the movement of this research facility? The Jaggar Museum was a massive visitor draw, many great displays and a gift shop also, as I recall. And a large observation platform over the caldera.

What about the importance of this visitor site?

2) Was HVO just some rooms with machines where scientific analysis is done? Not much in the way of physical observation? Is that why we get this seemingly crackpot idea to move HVO to Oahu?

The Trip story hardly tells us anything; one quote: "HVO consists of about 30 employees, who are working at temporary locations in Hilo after being displaced last year."

Do these employees need to be near the caldera to best perform their work?

[geochem]

There are multiple players involved in the decision on where to locate a new observatory - multiple issues to consider - and multiple locations under consideration (as usual, the media only reports the more extreme).

Some of the issues are "political": the National Park has always been, to varying degrees, antagonistic toward the work that USGS has done at the Kilauea summit and, as I understand it, pushed to move HVO out of the Park. The tree-hugger mentality that permeates the NPS (not just here but in mainland volcanic parks as well) has, for decades, thrown up obstructions to monitoring, as well as conducting basic science (that was not life science), on Park lands.

There are, however, legitimate reasons for questioning whether HVO should be built on the edge of the caldera: this eruption has changed the internal plumbing system of Kilauea in ways that no one understands and no one knows whether we will see a significant change in Kilauea's eruptive style. Don Swanson's research (as well as that of others) has shown that Kilauea has experienced explosive episodes in the past that were quite violent with damage extending well away from the caldera. This recent episode was an object lesson in the disruption to the monitoring program that can occur when your science facility is in the impact zone.

There are economic arguments as well: do you build a new facility in Volcano (inside or outside the Park) - who are you going to get the land from (if outside the Park); will that site be safe in the near term (an expensive new facility destroyed before it's complete)?; do you build in Hilo, Keaau, Mt. View, ?? - what will those sites cost and what is the cost for a new facility; Oahu has a large Federally-owned - but under-utilized - building at Ford Island where other Federal agencies have offices and labs - including the USGS Water Resources office: moving the Volcano Observatory into that facility has minimal capital cost and the added benefit of consolidating administrative functions which are replicated for two relatively small sets of (USGS) staff.

There are personal reasons on the part of the staff: some feel quite isolated here on Hawaii Island and I suspect that more than a few mainland staff have been reluctant to come to HVO because of the scientific isolation, as well as the social isolation and loss of access to good schools and more diverse cultural activities that are available at most mainland USGS installations. Even relocation of HVO from Volcano has generated some discussions - some folks want to continue to live in the Volcano area, others would prefer to have the offices in Hilo since they live there... And relocation to Oahu of the "science" staff (as distinct from the field staff) will incur substantial costs for them and so, it is likely that some significant staff losses will occur if that is the decision.

There are lots of intangible benefits to having HVO here on the island - beneficial to the island as well as beneficial to the mission of the Volcano Hazards Program. One hopes that they will be considered in the determination of the "best" location for a new volcano observatory. But a fair analysis of all the above, as well as many not identified, will need to be done - and no decision is going to be the "right" decision for some members of the larger "stakeholder" community.

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

Thanks. Questions:

1) Why is discussion seeming to focus solely on the movement of this research facility? The Jaggar Museum was a massive visitor draw, many great displays and a gift shop also, as I recall. And a large observation platform over the caldera.

What about the importance of this visitor site?

2) Was HVO just some rooms with machines where scientific analysis is done? Not much in the way of physical observation? Is that why we get this seemingly crackpot idea to move HVO to Oahu?

The Trip story hardly tells us anything; one quote: "HVO consists of about 30 employees, who are working at temporary locations in Hilo after being displaced last year."

Do these employees need to be near the caldera to best perform their work?

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Jagger Museum used to be part of the observatory; the newer wing was built to house the labs and offices of the staff several decades ago and the older building was refurbished and repurposed to Jagger Museum. Presumably, the Park will be making decisions on a "new" museum location (although, as noted previously, the Park may choose not to bother with a significant display of geologic information since they don't seem much interested in that science).

The Observatory facility was mostly a base of operations (not a lot of sophisticated laboratory facilities there). But is was, to a large degree, a site for receiving radio-telemetered data from continuous seismic and geodetic monitoring instruments all over Kilauea and Mauna Loa - and then analysis of that data - in as near real time as possible - for earthquake location and ground deformation changes. There was also data reception of web-cam data from active monitoring at various locations on both mountains. To some degree, there would be little loss of relocating some of those functions to Hilo or Oahu... But the observatory also was a base of operations where instrument maintenance and repair went on, and for a quick response function - when conditions changed rapidly in the field, direct observation by scientific staff could be done and field measurements could be made (field leveling, crack monitoring - to look for surface effects of intrusions, etc.).

Many of these functions could be, and in other countries are, done remotely. A central facility receives data from multiple remote cameras (visible, infrared, UV) monitoring eruptive vents located 10's to 100's of km distant from the observatory. Conceivably, a small facility remote from the caldera could be maintained for purposes of maintenance and fast response, while the scientific staff is located elsewhere - fast response could be done using drone technology (with NPS kicking and screaming every foot of the way...).

Some of these functions could be compromised for some purposes: an earthquake early warning system, which relies on very fast collection and processing of seismic and geodetic data in the first few seconds of an earthquake, could be compromised by delays in data transmission to remote sites, but that technology has yet to be implemented here in Hawaii.

[MarkD]

Thanks, good info.

"who are you going to get the land from (if outside the Park)"

Any room on the road directly across Komohana St. (uphill) from where all the Mauna Kea observatory HQs are located? The USDA Forest Service is sited here and other federal facilities. I walked up here the other day; area seems to have room to expand.

[Seeb]

So if they move, what happens next event. All the scientists are on Oahu. And the only info we’re getting is being filtered thru ‘State Missile Alert Defense’

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

Thanks, good info.

"who are you going to get the land from (if outside the Park)"

Any room on the road directly across Komohana St. (uphill) from where all the Mauna Kea observatory HQs are located? The USDA Forest Service is sited here and other federal facilities. I walked up here the other day; area seems to have room to expand.

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In fact that is one of the locations being considered - a number of prospective benefits to having it located there: where collaboration between UH (Computer Sciences, Geography, Geology, Chemistry) and HVO could be fostered; student interns working there from campus (something difficult to do if HVO is in volcano); access to UH laboratory equipment (SEM, x-ray diffraction, electron microprobe, UAV capability); closer interaction with County Civil defense; closer interaction with a broader sector of the island community; etc.

One hopes that those factors will be given some weight in the decision as well.

[TomK]

Mark,

"Any room on the road directly across Komohana St. (uphill) from where all the Mauna Kea observatory HQs are located? The USDA Forest Service is sited here and other federal facilities. I walked up here the other day; area seems to have room to expand."

The observatory buildings are pretty much full, I'm not sure there would be space for HVO to move there. If you mean a new building, then yes, there's certainly space, but that would involve a lot of time and the legal stuff is a nightmare (e.g., you may end up owning a building on land you don't own - it's happened). The Caltech Submillimeter Observatory building might be an option although right now I think it's being leased by the TMT although that might be out-of-date information. This is the building on the left as you turn off Komohana St and into Nowelo St heading towards Imiloa.

I'd imagine there must be some space available at UH Hilo which would be an ideal solution, but don't know that for a fact - obviously space was available during the eruption.

Geochem posted some great stuff, other than the above I don't think I can add much more.