Grading & Grubbing Testimony this Monday, May 19

[EightFingers]

The land we purchased is mostly native ohia forest and we plan to keep it that way. Most we will clear would be 8 to 10% of the land area (We have 28 acres).

[Rob Tucker]

I got this message from Kim Tavares this morning......

Hi All!

Small-kine (actually HUGE) victory today!

After several hours of testimony ALL IN FAVOR of amending ch. 10 grubbing and grading
to protect natural resources and cultural features, and to prevent flooding and other adverse affects ...

More council members seemed to support the concept than not.

Angel Pilago asked the lead petitioners to come up with draft language.

Brenda Ford said her sub-committee on Flooding and (something?) would have a look at
the suggestions that have come in.

Pilago suggested that perhaps the issue was larger than just flooding, and that it might be
a prudent to create a new sub-committee specific to everything related to the revision
(including cultural resources).

[gtill]

Q. What is a camel? A. A horse designed by a committee!

Angle's already included "cultural" When you buy are you sure someones' great great Grandpa isn't buried somewhere on top! A few stacked rocks can be a Heeau!

When you buy, how do you know that you're going to even be able to access your lot? Will you have to bribe a whole other set of contractors and experts,Kahunas, botonists, biologists etc who know just who to present the plan to at Bldg Dept! With a mapped and maarked drive, House pad water tank pad etc! With signatures! Everything evolves on the initial grading, another layer of buracracy.

It should impair building big time! And there will be a bunch of work for lawyers!

[kimtavares]

With regards to amending the grading & grubbing ordinance (Chapter 10 of the Hawaii County Code)…

The chapter is entitled: SOIL AND SEDIMENTATION CONTROL

It took people who love to look at the forest to bring the issue to light, and everyone should be grateful that this is finally on the agenda of our County Council.

Yes, you may feel that your rights are being taken away, that you are no longer able to completely consume the forested vegetation from pin to pin across your entire property, but there are logical reasons for this …

We are on an island formed by five major volcanoes. That means mountains, elevation, relief.

What comes (from) up, must go down (hill) …. The more land clearing is done, the less the land will hold water. Maybe that doesn’t mean much to folks on the plains, but it should. You will flood MORE as time goes on, if grubbing and grading forested property continues at it’s current pace.

Trees, ferns, thick forest landscapes are like sponges. They hold the water and allow it to slowly percolate to the undersurface, and to collect in underground reservoirs, or run out to sea via lava tubes. When they are removed, water doesn’t get a chance to be absorbed by the forest-sponge. It runs DOWNHILL to the lower elevations over land, and floods out homes and roadways.

SO, YES, it’s our fore-fathers given right to develop land in the United States of America as we please, but … mowing the forest flat DOES CAUSE FLOODING, and depletion of the water table besides (since water won’t be going underground as much).

Now besides the flooding issue, another very real reason to be more aware of what you grub is, in order to preserve Hawaiian cultural (archaeological) sites and features, and to stay safe. So you may have bought a graveyard, a stone wall, a cobblestone walking path or a big hole in the ground. This may not mean a lot to you, but it should. We as Americans “own” what we have bought. But to be a responsible land owner in Hawaii, it’s better to think of ourselves as land stewards. When we take care of the land, it takes care of us. That’s not just a poetic cliché, it’s a very real fact.

County code, State statutes, and the lack of enforcement of either, allows us to destroy valuable cultural resources and our environment. These are about the only two things that federal government will put ahead of other land use laws. All of the problems listed in this post CAN be solved by innovative new ways of thinking. Get out of that canned “it is, therefore it is” box, and think creatively. We can develop whole new industries *and lots of jobs* around forest protection, water resources, natural resources management and restoration, if we put our collective minds to finding a good solution for everyone. Explore your land before you develop it. Find out what you’ve got …. Before it’s gone. Please join myself and others in the next steps to come…

Sincerely,
Kim Tavares

Puna CDP Steering Committee in support of:
Natural Resources Working Group
Culture and Historic Resources Working Group
Agriculture Working Group
Land Use Working Group
Community Development Hui of Fern Forest, president
Fern Forest resident
& Hawaii resident for over 30 years…

Mahalo.

[Mitzi M]

Aloha Kim and welcome to the forum.
Thanks for your hard work.
You go, girl!

Mitzi

[aprild]

I think that this old-fashioned idea that 'owning' a piece of property therefore gives one the 'right' to do whatever one wishes with it is a canard.

First of all, every one of us is only a steward of the land. Our lifespans are short, especially in geological terms, and we do not have the right to destroy eons of formation, growth, evolution, etc.

Secondly, if I were to bull-doze my property (and put in a cesspool and/or use well water profusely)I do not only impact my own tiny bit of land, but yours as well--in myriad and possibly not yet understood ways.

I do not have the 'right' to infringe on your 'rights' to clean air, water, viewshed, non-dessimated natural resources, et al.

The so-called American way of looking at these sorts of things is totally skewed and just plain, wrong.

What we have a 'right' to do is to preserve the earth for future generations. We are just passing through here.

We need a new vision--one that is more specific, rigorous and appropriate... especially for the times we find ourselves inhabiting. What we know now makes it immoral to continue in this out-dated view of the world. We have already conquered the West and every other patch of earth. Manifest destiny no longer pertains.

Not every piece of land should be built on.

april

[Bob Orts]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimtavares

Now besides the flooding issue, another very real reason to be more aware of what you grub is, in order to preserve Hawaiian cultural (archaeological) sites and features, and to stay safe. So you may have bought a graveyard, a stone wall, a cobblestone walking path or a big hole in the ground. This may not mean a lot to you, but it should. We as Americans “own” what we have bought. But to be a responsible land owner in Hawaii, it’s better to think of ourselves as land stewards. When we take care of the land, it takes care of us. That’s not just a poetic cliché, it’s a very real fact.

---

If I understand what you’re saying, a major item is that clear cutting can destroy precious cultural and archaeological sites and features. If so, I fail to see how this ordinance will solve anything. It may, through hit or miss, save an item or two, but still allows the wholesale destruction. Now I agree that saving one out of a hundred culturally important features is worth it, but if they are that important, why not address the cultural, historical, and archeological issue in it's entirety instead of relaying on a throw of the dice?

[Bob Orts]

quote:

---

Originally posted by aprild

I think that this old-fashioned idea that 'owning' a piece of property therefore gives one the 'right' to do whatever one wishes with it is a canard.

---

But if government gave you the right to do something on your property and later TAKES it away - are the winds of the Fourth and Fifth Amendment starting to blow?

[aprild]

Bob,

What if, as an owner, you realized there was a better way to look at use of your property and you were fully behind the new way of doing things? I believe there is a win-win solution possible for everyone. Things change and we have to accommodate that change in every area of life. We may not get it right the first time--that's what amendments are for, right?

Now, one thing that, especially big developers, will have to relinquish is the right to make a huge profit. They will be able to make a living, but not a killing.

I don't see new attempts to balance environmental needs with individual needs as a threat to individual freedom. What I have noticed is that the larger the population, the more laws and prohibitions. This is the reason for change and the need for better ways of doing things. If the population was still small we wouldn't be threatening to capsize the carrying capacity of the earth and wouldn't need to be so concerned with what individuals were doing to their pieces of property.

Ultimately, is it really a loss of freedom if you are doing the right thing for the environment and future generations?

april

[Kapohocat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by aprild

I think that this old-fashioned idea that 'owning' a piece of property therefore gives one the 'right' to do whatever one wishes with it is a canard...

---

I just like the fact that you used "canard"... ! it fits perfectly in your sentence! (I may not completely agree with the sentiment but thats a different post!)


Canard is French for duck, and is often used in English to refer to a deliberately false story, originating from an abbreviated form of an old French idiom, "vendre un canard à moitié," meaning "to half-sell a duck."