if you bought a house in Puna in the last 5 years

[Devany]

Kathy, that was VERY well said! And Pam your post was excellent too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KathyH

Some real estate agents ARE a big part of the bubble, but as part of showing what's on the market. Outside of Puna, and the lava risk, a house that wasn't a MAJOR fixer for under 500,000 was very hard to find in the boom years. It's not a question of trying to live in a fancy house, but rather a livable house.

After awhile of telling the agent your preferred price range, the one that works, and not finding anything, the price point creeps up. It happens, in an insidious way, and agents encourage it with stuff like "this is you, or "you can make it happen." Lots of positive thinking ... and then life kicks someone and kicks again and it doesn't happen.

You all talk about assuming risks. Well the same applies if the lava shifts and inundates Pahoa, HPP, or name your subdivision. Then people who were fiscally responsible and bought something they could afford will be up a creek because of taking a different risk, called settling for a lava zone because they thought it wouldn't happen and the prices were attractive.

Same dilemma, people need homes and homes in safe areas in decent condition in Hawai'i are not affordable, or were not affordable until this last year.

I will try not to be judgmental of choices when that happens. I'll be empathetic.

---

Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

Devany Vickery-Davidson
East Bay Potters
www.eastbaypotters.com
www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.travelingfork.blogspot.com

[pslamont]

No attack or bashing here..... I just think we need to think in terms of being responsible for our own choices and being honest about it. Heck, Lostboy, you are one of the most responsible guys I know, making plans and knowing your options and limits!!

Please no one be offended by what I wrote. It's just the ramblings of a crazy old woman!!!!!

[lostboystoy]

one more tid bit.
John?
I am not sure about Hawaii but anytime I have bought a home.
And put in a offer. Included is a letter of proof of funding.
So how can you say you don't know what your clients fianances are.

Common sence would tell you to check fianances, before you wasted your time, hauling your clients around showing them properties.

This is where I say their guidlines to protect from this kind of mess. But we choose to ignore them.

setting my soul free....

[macuu222]

Thank god I bought land and built 25 years ago when I was a kid! An "acre" in HPP back then was $6000.00. I don't think it will ever go that low again (unless Madame Pele decides it's time for a new flow down Paradise Drive)

[StillHope]

Macuu,the price is great and still low,no matter what.
But back then everything was so much cheaper,min.wage so much lower and even real estate in San Diego was almost affordable.
So back then 6K was a lot of money.Now - 6 month rent (if you have a good deal!)?

[Green]

To bad we the taxpayers don't have people at the white house that represent us. Then we would surely have lobbyists running all over making sweet deals with politians for us the taxpayers. That way could wake up one day and find it's christmas all over again, all our debts forgiven and paid for by, no not the taxpayers, but by Wallstreet and the banks. No instead we must be held accountable for our misdeeds of investing in the american dream of working hard and maybe making a little $$ in real estate.

[rprr]

My understanding of rent vs buy used to be the following.

-- A house priced at more than 200 times the monthly rent you were currently paying was too expensive.

-- If you bought a house paying 4 times your annual income, then that was too much.

[John S. Rabi]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lostboystoy

one more tid bit.
John?
I am not sure about Hawaii but anytime I have bought a home.
And put in a offer. Included is a letter of proof of funding.
So how can you say you don't know what your clients fianances are.

Common sence would tell you to check fianances, before you wasted your time, hauling your clients around showing them properties.

---

I can only speak for my company, we ask you to bring us a pre-qual letter from a lender that tells us what you qualify for. That letter does not tell us if you can AFFORD to buy or not. You are right, there are lots of real estate agents who will "work with you" without such a letter. I have been a Broker for 15 years and it's no secret how I feel about most real estate agents. I even wrote an article about them in one of my newsletters, I will look it up and post it here. In 15 years I had two (2!) clients who lost money on their purchase. One was my ex-wife who bought three condos against my advice even though she couldn't afford them and the other one was my cousin who didn't sell his land when I advised him to do so. The 100% profit wasn't good enough for him. []

Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,ARB,BFT,CM,CBR,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"

[ric]

I think Pam's response was excellent, thorough and 100% correct. I would like to add that for those who hold their properties mortgage-free (means that they worked for the money and paid for what they bought), these "relief" plans are completely unjust. So if I bought something with a mortgage, I am entitled to a discount? I'm not complaining that banks are making principal or interest adjustments, but some of the attitudes expressed here are that the banks, taxpayers, and society as a whole OWE it to them? hmm ... socialism anyone?

To me, for the past 4-5 years, when looking at home values compared to wages, in addition to the hyper-development of condos and spec homes, it was apparent that some adjustment was coming.

I don't expect that anyone posting here is a subprime borrower, but if we are spreading blame around, we must also look at what effect subprime mortgages had on the market. They drove prices up from the bottom. This affected every level of the market. So, what fueled the subprime mess? It wasn't only greedy banks. Congress had a role in this too -- there were congressional hearings in 2003 regarding this practice, in reference to Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae, and Barney Frank defended this practice, in order to kowtow to his 'handout' constituents.

FROM US NEWS & WORLD REPORT (9/10/08):
So five years ago, there was one of those rare moments in Washington when the branches and personalities of government—in this case, the Bush administration—are less interested in protecting or expanding their turf than in fixing a looming catastrophe. What was Frank's response to the proposal?

"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
END OF INSERT

So as long as we are spreading blame, let's include Congressman Barney Frank for pushing banks to give loans to people who should NEVER own a house, in opposition to Bush's Treasury Secretary Tony Snow's proposal for Treasury oversight of these lending practices and significant regulatory overhaul of the housing finance industry.

Government is NOT the answer to this market problem. Government involvement in the market helped to cause this problem and continues to be part of the problem.

I know almost everyone has suffered personal hardships in the past few months, but sometimes the right solution is not the easiest one.

Best wishes to all who are struggling.

[Dave M]

I should just let this go cuz there are a lot of people that are in a bad place, not just in Hawaii either, and I know it's important for them to have someone or where to place blame. It's much easier to blame leanders, appraisers (which there are some slippery slopes out there) as well as Realtors. But no realtor anywhere is responsible for selling an ARM (Adjustable Rate Mortgage) which has not been mentioned here.

Yes, Heaven forbid people "think in terms of being responsible for our own choices and being honest about it." (pslamont) I guess that's my concern in lostboys blame game I don't hear any responsibility from him at all. It's those nasty agents that showed me what I told them I wanted.

And yes I'm sure some agents quote statistics and show people how much the values have gone up in the past few years. Umm.. doesn't make them liars and thieves does it? I have seen lenders quote principle & interest numbers only but I as many of my contempararys(sp) always make sure my clients see the bottom line with a HUD statement 24 hours before closing IT'S THE LAW. I can't remember how many times I've told clients"don't forget that figure is only P&I here's the estimated taxes and insurance (hoemowners associatio fees) etc etc..

Now I will admit that the laxed gun laws here in Texas do make closings easier for me than Rabbi, in Hawaii, what with me having to be able to carry my pistole to the closings. Buyer starts asking question at closing it's always important to be able to put that gun to their heads! [:0]

]"O.k. Lets get this straight BANKS/BANKERS are the ones RESPONSIBLE for where they lend their money. End of the blame game." Well obviously not but thanks, anela and Pam, for your rational attempts at ending it.




Blessings,
dave

"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young