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I think the $2 per bag, and the manned-when-closed protocols are horrible and ill-concieved. There's absolutely no reason to think that somehow our whole society can be 'converted' to conscientious citizens. This will only make it worse for those who already are.
To the comment about privatizing and making $$ from the recyclables, I can tell you that at our rental properties on the mainland, we are charged extra fees for the cubic yards of recyclables, to be dumped in landfill when they don't have an end user. More times than not, this stuff doesn't even get recycled, and we're charged. Most people don't understand that the waste collection companies have powerful unions and lobbies that influence municipal trash laws. How much $$ did they make by now having twice as many trucks picking up both trash and recyclables, convincing everyone that this would pay for itself, only then to start adding surcharges when there is no end-user for the recyclables.
On the Big Island, it seems even worse as there are fewer industries that can use any secondary raw materials. I always wondered about the abandoned cars, those would be worth $50 or so on the mainland just for scrap, but apparently no value on the Big Island? They just sit there.
On the idea of reducing packaging, it is a great idea, except the idea of government control is frightening. Next thing you know, everything we buy will be broken already. However, currently, the free market has been effective at reducing packaging on lots of items. Amazon has been pressuring suppliers to provide eco-friendly packaging. One of the biggest reasons for excessive packaging for retail stores is that for small items, they get shoplifted so much, so they have to put a little memory card in something bigger than your hand. Not a problem for online sales though. I'd say leave the packaging to the free market, and use your own consumer decisions to buy stuff with less packaging. The pressure should come from consumers, NOT the government.
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quote:
Originally posted by Devany
This "solution" is only going to cause a lot more dumping on roads. The costs should be included in property taxes. Of course people should be responsible... but they are not even fully responsible now with free dumping and most stations not accepting green waste except as "trash". There is a better way.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
Yes if you pay at the site it will encourage illegal dumping. If we're gonna start paying maybe we could have a rubbish pickup service instead of transfer stations. My family hardly has anything to take to the dump anyway, mostly recyclables. We already pay to haul large amounts.
Daniel R Diamond
Daniel R Diamond
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Milolii beach lots was/is a good example of what happens when citizens allowed illegal dumping with the free waste collection stations as it WAS one of the messiest subdivisions on the island until some of newer subdivision residents took the initiative to clean up the mess. With the proposed fee being adopted the current private citizen clean up efforts will cease and a large number of areas will begin to appear worse than Milolii did.
I rather doubt the $2 a bag collection fee will cover the costs of having to hire and maintain a half dozen municipally employed specialty illegal dump cleanup crews for as will be necessary shortly after the fee is adopted.
Nope… this fee will only lead to a higher county cost of waste handling overall and the fee will prove a double edge sword with far greater revenue losses across the board including but not limited to lost tourism dollars while the word spreads like wild fire across the mainland about how filthy the Big Island has become.
The county will not be afforded the luxury of the old Hawaiian style slow pace issue address when it comes to trash that emerges nightly and daily at any moment when tourists are lurking about to see it. Is the county poised and ready for a militaristic approach to a trash attack? We all know the answer to that question.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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I'm not gonna be too thrilled to find a bunch of c*** dumped on my land because someone didn't want to pay the $2/bag fee. [
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So now I'll have to pay to get rid of it I suppose.
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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Too much money that would be unaccountable.
People would start burning trash which would be worse for the environment or dumping it on other peoples property.
I can see the intent of the proposal but I feel it would cost more in the long run to clean up the mess.
They need to start a sort facility and have non violent crimals sort the trash. DUI's ect. need to work so many hours as punishment.
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They want us to pay two dollars a bag while this is what they do with our money:
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/arti...ocal03.txt
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Originally quoted by dakine:
quote:
I think that thought is all fine and dandy on the surface, but far from realistic in reality. The fact, and one so many americans do not face up to, is that we have a partially capitalistic government (that's the side your views seem to fit well with I think) and partially socialistic government. This I know to be a thorn in so many peoples side, especially now that the universal health care debate is once again in the fore. But, considering that we already have means to collect funds, through taxes, from the general population, that are then distributed to provide specific functions that do not serve everyone, but are still very critical to the well being of society as a whole (education is a good example) one has to consider that there just might be room in or system to expand the tax model and provide services such as garbage collection and disposal, that is deemed good for the majority of people.
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I agree very much with your line of thinking. There are already things in place that make our lives much easier and are funded by the taxes we pay. IMHO, A basic need like processing garbage should be one of the things that our local government pays for on our behalf. (Just an opinion - everyone's got 'em.)
Anyone see the new hours at the rubbish facilities? 8:00 am to 4:30 pm, I believe. Interesting. I think it starts December 1st.
Carrie
"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." Galadriel - LOTR
Carrie Rojo
"Even the smallest person can change the course of the future..." Galadriel LOTR
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Perhaps we can arrange a get together with the news media on the matter. Have them video us picking up illegally dumped trash from our properties and along our roadways and taking it out front on the roadway shoulders of the county representatives homes and dumping it there for them to look at and deal with "hands on".
We'll see how long they like it around their house.
I can see it now; some poor absentee property owner TAX PAYER comes for a visit after a few years and finds their property covered with trash and then finds they have to pay some-one a $1000 or so to clean up the mess. How long are those folks going to hang on to that “living in Hawaii dream” after that? They will list that property ASAP and so will all the others who experience it and the real-estate market on vacant land will nose dive right along with property tax assessment amounts. Have they forgotten how many absentee property owners there are? I would like to see the absentee property owner % in Hawaii County compared to the rest of the nations Counties. Did they even do any deep research on this subject before they shot from the hip on the matter?
Absentee property owners pay a significant real property tax amount yearly in county revenues and the county need not give a single cent back in return to these people? What’s wrong with this picture and where does this notion come from that the county should not preserve through already collected taxes the means necessary for the cleanliness of the land of the absentee property owner’s return? The county owes every absentee property owner the peace of mind that their property will not become a garbage pit and there’s been only one way to effectively address this issue and thus far it has been predominantly a sound method. Why change it now?
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Proper disposal of garbage is something we absolutely can not do without for many reasons. We need to make that happen no matter what. We then need to work on keeping people paying their taxes. We can not afford to "try" to get people to dispose of garbage.
Unfortunately there is a very significant percentage of the population that is barely functional and is not willing or able to fulfill their responsibilities to society. That is a fact we must deal with.
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Perhaps bags of trash valued at $2 ea. could be considered as political campaign contributions.
That being in jest I would suggest that more compliance (wishful thinking I know) from the public might be achieved if a per bag charge could be directed by personal choice to any number of social non profits in the same manner that recycled monies can be directed to non-profits.
Humane Society, Medical clinic, Education, Elder programs, Youth programs, many, many potentials.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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