CRIMINAL penalties for non-permitted buildings!

[csgray]

This complicated idea sounds like it is just a different version of bureaucratic nightmare than the current one. Who is going to pay for all these inspections? Does the owner builder save up front and the future buyers bear the cost of making sure they are buying a safe home? I would rather the costs happen right up front and are born by the builder, not future buyers at a later date. It also leaves renters completely out of the equation, are they supposed to pay for an inspection to make sure they are moving into a safe home?

Carol

[Wao nahele kane]

The value of the grading system to the industry actually implements competition, promotes cutting edge pursuit and opens the doors to alternative building methods. Home building has been far too long under the oppression of municipality and manufacturing strangleholds. It's time to rip away those chains and allow the industry to flourish while promoting innovation and giving the buyer a greater flexibility to find a home that meets their individual personality and desires.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Wao nahele kane]

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

This complicated idea sounds like it is just a different version of bureaucratic nightmare than the current one. Who is going to pay for all these inspections? Does the owner builder save up front and the future buyers bear the cost of making sure they are buying a safe home? I would rather the costs happen right up front and are born by the builder, not future buyers at a later date. It also leaves renters completely out of the equation, are they supposed to pay for an inspection to make sure they are moving into a safe home?

Carol

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It actually removes the bureaucracy. Homes simply become graded on particular attributes. Structural, Electrical, Plumbing, efficiency categories etc. Renters? If a renter requires to see this information I guess that's up to the landlord.
The system would ultimately remove municipalities from the equation. A semi crude comparative but this would be more liken to a graded aircraft system with the benefit of allowing for ultra lite and experimental aircraft so to speak. Allowing the industry to regulate itself with only minimal basic safety regulations but for those that don't meet those regulations... the classification of ultra lite or experimental is applied.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Wao nahele kane]

Now... if we can allow for these unfettered freedoms within aircraft building. We can certainly allow for them to be available for building stationary objects on the ground - homes. The safety hysteria around homes is relatively baseless compared to other things on a national average that are allowed as unregulated practices.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Forester]

quote:

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Interestingly a lot of people think the "building code" is telling them how to build their home... the codes actually are telling the the lowest standard of construction allowed by law.

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By law, yes, since by definition codes = the law. By reason, counterexamples abound. Like castles and Roman aqueducts in Europe standing through earthquakes that bring "modern" buildings crumbling.

[csgray]

There are millions of people living in rented homes, many of them are renting because they can't afford to buy a home. Do they not deserve to live in homes that have some sort of minimal safety standard enforced by our government? This proposed grading system has no mechanism to protect renters from greedy people who would build the cheapest possible structures and rent them out to unsuspecting families, those people are called slumlords. Codes and inspections protect everyone, including people without the buying power to demand evidence of inspection.

The current system isn't perfect but comparing it to aircraft inspections is comparing apples and oranges. Not many people can afford to play with "experimental" aircraft, but the vast majority of the people in this country need to live in some sort of house or apartment. Rarely does the failure of "experimental" aircraft kill anyone but the people who chose to fly in it, but structures that fail in a major weather event or through electrical fires can kill whole families, including children who had no vote at all on where they live.

Carol

[rainyjim]

Slum lords - renters vs homeowner-builders. Apples and oranges I think.

I wonder if there is any numbers for homeowners vs. renters on the big island.

I imagine it wouldn't be very accurate because of all the folk that aren't toeing the law.

Interesting discussion folk.

[csgray]

As I said before, I could see allowing owner builders to skip the codes as long as no one else except the builder can live there. If someone wants to live in a traditional Hale they should be able to do so. But if someone wants to build a cheapo house cutting every single corner possible that looks like a "real" house I don't think they should be able to sell, rent, or give it away.

I just don't see how some sort of after the fact grading inspection could possibly catch issues with things like improperly done concrete pours, bad wiring and plumbing, or inadequate framing.

Carol

[Obie]

Why not allow owner built homes but require that they could never be sold ?

We could also have homes that are owner built but well documented that they comply to code.

In many parts of the country you can build without a permit and when you sell you just disclose that and that factors into the price.

In Hawaii it's all about Democrats and Unions !!!

[csgray]

Obie: "In Hawaii it's all about Democrats and Unions !!!"

Perfect example of a completely gratuitous partisan comment in a completely non partisan discussion! I was thinking, wow Obie and I are in agreement! But then you just had to add your little fillip of partisan spite. Can't people just talk like grownups without throwing in partisan politics?

Carol