Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Maunakea's illegal face lift alone could net or provide billions if not a trillion dollars of retribution for the damages already caused.

The money to build the TMT is not a pot of gold that can be used by "finders keepers." It is money budgeted for one purpose only, to build the TMT. If the TMT is not built, the money, cannot and will not be used for any other purpose in Hawaii.

[PunaMauka2]

Here comes gypsy with the irrational activist beat poetry project smoke screen.

[Kaimana]

quote:

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Originally posted by PunaMauka2

Punaticbychoice,

This back and forth with Kaimana trying to get an answer to a basic question is ludicrous. Reminds of lawyer word play, intentionally dancing around and dragging things out when advantageous or upon being stuck in a logical pitfall.

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The thing is, you keep adding realistically into your question so you can use that as a defense against what ever I say.

But I'll play along. First the HK would need to present the information out to the masses. Most people in Hawaii don't even know the argument. Then they'd have to have some sort of legal ruling(the Moloka'i fisherman case could be it) in the US courts that support their case of occupation not annexation. They'd also need to get backing internationally, which is what they are trying to do now with cases going on in Switzerland, NZ and Canada.

If all that goes in the HK's favor and the US admits it is occupying Hawaii the next step would be for the deoccupation to begin. The US military would be in charge of enforcing HK laws until a new HK government could be established. Then it would be the new HK governments task to figure out who gets to stay and who has to leave. They could end up giving everyone citizenship for all we know.

But all the infrastructure for government was already in place before the overthrow/occupation. So that's not really an issue. State government transfers back to the HK Exectutive branch and Legislative branch. Judicial branch remains the same, with judges needing to be experts in HK laws. This would take years for it to fully transfer back to HK laws. Police, fire etc were already in place before.

That's the cliff notes of it all.

[PunaMauka2]

Kaimana, just one other question for you for now, if I may. Who exactly is the Hawaii Kingdom ("HK") that you indicate "would need to present the information out to the masses".

[Kaimana]

I shouldn't have been as specific as the Hawaiian Kingdom. It would be all the sovereignty groups. Because as much as people say there is a lot of division among the different sovereignty groups, they all want sovereignty and they all agree that we are being occupied and that there is no treaty of annexation.

[PunaMauka2]

So basically the task will be to get enough of the world, along with the US federal government, to adopt the view that Hawaii is presently being illegally occupied and that the State of Hawaii does not legally exist, then agree to a "deoccupation" and a reinstated Hawaii Kingdom in it's place, assuming this is possible under US law.

Thank you for answering, Kaimana. No further questions at this time.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

all the sovereignty groups... agree that we are being occupied and that there is no treaty of annexation.

Kaimana,
What would you think about the following possibility. Hawaiian Kingdom advocates have multiple factions as in Iraq, in both places the factions have similar goals but different ideas of how to get there. The US has held those groups together in Iraq (so far), but without an outside influence in Hawaii do you think a Hawaiian Kingdom might result in multiple Hawaiian Kingdoms, perhaps one on each island?

[Aaron S]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kaimana
But I'll play along. First the HK would need to present the information out to the masses. Most people in Hawaii don't even know the argument. Then they'd have to have some sort of legal ruling(the Moloka'i fisherman case could be it) in the US courts that support their case of occupation not annexation. They'd also need to get backing internationally, which is what they are trying to do now with cases going on in Switzerland, NZ and Canada.

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Judge Cardoza gave "judicial notice" to the existence of the Hawaiian Kingdom. Judicial notice is legal speak for recognizing a entity or individual. The attorney for the fishermen filed a motion with the Hawaii Supreme Court to dismiss the charges against his clients. The Hawaii Supreme Court denied attorney Dexter Kaiama's motion.

http://hawaiiankingdom.org/blog/state-of...ll-exists/

http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_...236ord.pdf

http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_...econd.pdf

[kalakoa]

Since 1994, this has been an open legal question and the Hawai'i courts have repeatedly denied motions to dismiss because the defendants have failed to provide conclusive evidence of the Hawaiian Kingdom’s existence as a state under international law. These decisions have been routinely confirmed on appeal.

[beepbeep]

The U.S. Is a debtor nation. Where would a trillion dollars come from? As for all the jobs, are you saying permanent jobs? Who will invest in Hawaii at that point?

I think the What Do You Want question is fairly asked, but to the protesters as a group, because there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what is wanted.

If the U.S. Military ever decides to leave Hawaii, Hawaii will end up being overshadowed or completely snapped up by another nation. Maybe this is a conspiracy and the protesters are being paid by China or Russia!

On a serious note, may God forbid anyone in Hawaii ever be recruited by ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. I certainly don't know of any sign of that. Just plan to pray about it, since groups like that thrive on instability. Another reason US military presence could be a good thing.

Hawaii hasn't had to think geopolitically. That is one of the benefits of being one of the states in the powerful United States of America.

Hope HK proponents aren't really dreaming of kicking people out who have homes in Hawaii. Would be very unfair since people bought in good faith. Would also create an absurd precedent for people who bought anything anywhere in the world.But if it ever looked like any kind of possibility the real estate market would crash down to the bottom . Yet another sign that some people haven't thought this through.



Pam in CA