Big Island Charter schools possible closure

[Rob Tucker]

While you're talking about money to implement programs may I point out that the DOE is building five new classrooms in Nahalehu at a cost of $500 per square foot?

Where the money goes......

There is a possibility that an inefficient system which bleeds money might not want to see any shiny examples of more being done for less.

[Bob Orts]

Now Damon, don't tell me your giving in to Diversions as well?[V]

We are not talking curriculum.
We are not talking admission problems,

I'm talking about an arrogant disrespect for the rules by a school.
I'm talking about the arrogant disrespect for the welfare of the students.

The administrators, parents and supporters are doing a good job diverting attention from the issues. Nobody on the side of the school has yet to be able to justify their actions and attitude, they can only make excuses.

This is really not about a school; it's about their arrogant belief that they are above the rules of society, community, and social conduct. They don't care about anyone but themselves.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Orts
....I'm talking about the arrogant disrespect for the welfare of the students.....

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I'll raise my child... you raise yours [] I don't think any of these kids are forced to go there.

Are you saying the parents are disrespecting there children by choosing to put them in there?

[anela1111]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greta

You misunderstand my interest. I am talking about last spring when the charter school was actively soliciting current MWS students, but was completely disengaged with any other local schools. Any Puna public school families that I gave contact information to were told that enrollement was full, while students from MWS were still being actively recruited.

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I really can not answer that, I do not know it to be true.
I can tell you that most of the tremendous volunteer work that needed to be done to make the school happen was done mostly by former MWS parents and families and staff who were in it from the beginning and yes some of there kids went to the school, some went/stayed at MWS.
Your statement doesn't make sense to me, children are children does it matter where they were formally? Unless your trying to say that people from our school maliciously tried to steal MWS students which I know not to be true and I know MWS said that and it was even in the complaint to the county I saw (like the CPD cares about that).I think they were just trying to get sympathy,who can blame them it does kind of make them look bad when there teachers and students run off and start a new school. I do know that even after this loss there enrollment has increased. So they can't really complain about that, can they.

Like I said maybe your friends tried to come in at a time when things were very confusing. Except for the CS admin closing registration for a few weeks in spring we have always had openings so maybe thats what happened your friends didn't know registration opened back up. Believe me we've had lots of "spys" from MWS come into our schools pretending to want to enroll ect.. I heard one of the MWS Mothers even came last week to take a picture of our school in operation, wonder what they are going to do with that? I think the WOL office is rather protective/suspicious about people calling perhaps your friends should of went in, in person. Thank you for helping to spread the word to others about the new school.

I really want MWS to just stop, I do not want new complaints filed on the new locations. All of this justs hurts the children. (we won't even talk about the carbon footprint ramifications). I have a copy of the complaint to the county I would be happy to send/show it to anybody who wants to see it. I also have the Old thread that was deleted if anybody wants that I will email it to you.

Even though anybody can easily file complaints for anything even us on MWS (not that we would). I would hope that any MWS parents that see this, would express to the MWS admin that they really don't want there school to continue this, even if they tell you there not, they are.
There may or may not have been people who have to reap what they sow or whatever, but its the children that are hurt by it,Do any of you want to be responsible for hurting children and families? Over what?

Bob Orts I won't bother to argue with you in a sense you have a point
I appreciate the fact you care, perhaps you could funnel that into getting Puna some zoning changes (never mind that will take infrastructure first and we know were not gonna get that). So how about the special permit process do you want your money going to studies so schools can't be by endangered flora among a bunch of other ridiculous things? I guess some could argue flowers are more important than community schools.
I would hope you wouldn't be so quick to judge until you walk in our shoes so to speak, But its all over now, no children were physically injured thank God.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by Damon
I don't think any of these kids are forced to go there.

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Do you think the kids had the say? I don't think so. I think it's the parents who made the decision and told their kids that's where they are going.

quote:

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Originally posted by Damon
Are you saying the parents are disrespecting there children by choosing to put them in there?

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Do you think a parent is disrespecting their kid if they decide not to have the kid wear a seat belt because the parent doesn’t want to wear one?
Do you think a parent is disrespecting their kid if the parent is shooting up and leaving a dirty needle in the same room as the child?
Do you think a parent is disrespecting a kid if the parent take them for a ride on a motorcycle without a helmet?
And these parents are disrespecting the community by saying they, their children, and school is more important and deserving than any rules.

I hear people complain about the long drive to take their recyclable and trash to the legitimate places for drop-off. Well screw the community, I’m opening up a waste transfer station where they don’t have to drive long distances. Sure it’s smack between a bunch of peoples houses, sure zoning says no, sure it going to cause traffic. But you know who gives a damn. The community needs one and I’ll fill that need with my own private garbage dump. Right in the middle of the block. People don't like it, tough! If WOL can violate rules, so can I.

Maybe the other property will make a good location for a halfway house for sex offenders. What do you mean the zoning doesn’t allow it? WOL is doing it, why can’t I. And don’t dare say anything about safety of the community, you don’t care about the safety of the children in that school so why care about the safety of any kid.

What do you mean zonings says I can’t build 4 six story, glass and chrome apartment buildings on my 1 acre of land? No, no, no. WOL, says following zoning should not be an issue. So you lost your view. So you have people looking down on you from their windows. So their lights make it that you can’t sleep. Zoning is optional, isn’t it?

Wait, where is the closest methadone clinic? Not close, Hey I’ve got a piece of property smack dab in a residential area. I know the people can’t say anything especially if WOL is allowed to violate the rules.

The local school installed bars on all windows and chained the doors shut? You’re worried about a fire? How will the kids get out? Who cares, WOL has argued that safety isn’t an issue and needs to be ignored. If they burn, so what they were getting an education!

And, build the incinerator! Who cares about any safety issues? WOL is setting the example that a claim of doing good outweighs any legitimate safety, health and welfare concerns, especially when it comes to children.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Tucker

While you're talking about money to implement programs may I point out that the DOE is building five new classrooms in Nahalehu Naalehu at a cost of $500 per square foot?

Where the money goes......

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Sounds like from this editorial that Naalehu is deservant of some new classrooms.

The cost... now that's something else to address.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Orts
...Do you think the kids had the say? I don't think so. I think it's the parents who made the decision and told their kids that's where they are going.....

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So why jump all over the school? Shouldn't you be jumping on the parents that send their kids there? [V]

I don't get it... First it's the school... then it's the parents... then it's the safety of the kids... but geez...

These things go on at the public schools too.

Parenting and how you raise a child will go a lot further then most k-12 institutes can provide.

I read somewhere that the majority of the learning that a child really learns is before the age of 5.

It's the parents.... Everyone is blaming the schools, the teachers, the state, the feds, etc.... yet they fail to look at the root of the tree...which is the parents themselves.

Don't blame it on the system...and certainly don't blame it on the keiki.

[puna haku]

People like Bob Ortz don't get it because they haven't been through the process. Let me try to walk you through the process. First you need to find a site. In Hawaii, it needs to have commercial zoning or you need to get a special use permit. No problem. There really are no suitable commercial zoned lots that are vacant. So let's assume you are going to go the special use permit route. Okay, first you need a site. The landowner has to agree to lease the site too you as schools can't buy the lot. Now you must get the landowner to file all the documents and the landowner has to be willing to wait 8 to 9 months to see if they are able to actually lease the school the property. Remember they have to have the permit first and it's a 8 to 9 month process. The landowner also has to be willing to be dragged to through the mud in the press and testify in public at the County Council meeting. Usually, when the landowners find out what they got themselves into they flee, as expected. But you are lucky and you found a landowner who will endure all the negative press and the contest that comes from all the surrounding neighbors. You say rightfully so and okay the neighbors get their say.

Now to file the special permit before all this takes place, the fee is only $100 to file and that's no problem. However you need to have all of the following reports:

1. An archaeological inventory report
2. Floral and Faunal Resources study
3. Valued Cultural Resources that identifies any traditional customary native Hawaiian rights that are exercised in the area.
4. Traffic analysis and access study
5. Availability of utilities: Water, telephone, electricity, sewage disposal.
6. Discussion of how the request will promote the effectiveness of Hawaii Revised Statues Chapter 205 and is not contrary to Chapter 205A, Coastal Zone Management. (Chapter 205 regards land use in State Agricultural Lands, which does not permit schools within State Agricultural land) Chapter 205A requires Coastal Zone impacts and discussion along with Mountain access.
7. You must demonstrate the desired use shall not adversely affect the surrounding properties.
8. You must demonstrate such use shall not unreasonably burden public agencies to provide roads and streets, sewers, water, drainage, school improvements, and police and fire protection.
9. You must demonstrate the proposed use will not substantially alter or change the essential character of the land and the present use.
10. The proposed use will not be contrary to the goals, policies and standards of the General Plan and other applicable documents such as community development plans and design plans
11. You must show the proposed use is an unusual and reasonable use of land, which would not be contrary to the objectives to be sought by the Land Use Law and Regulations.
12. You must list the names and send notices at specific times to all owners within 300’ of the site boundaries, who will more than likely take issue with several items if not the use itself.
13. Finally, you must attend hearings where the above will be debated, the press and your neighbors will vilify you.

The above studies can run you significant amounts of money, especially if you have a suitable lot for a school. For WOL’s 20 Acres we are talking around $100,000. For a 1-acre lot in Hawaiian Paradise Park, maybe $15,000 will get it. I know because I’ve paid for them on both sizes. Now a start up charter school has no money for this, and even less before they are a school. They are not allowed to be shelling out $15,000 or more for such studies, and the it’s the landowner who has to file. So the landowner has to be willing to spend this money upfront hoping that in 8 to 9 months they will be able to lease their site to a school. Schools don’t even lease the land for that kind of money.

Now if the above seems like a lot. It’s only the first step. The above only gets you through the Planning Department’s Special Use Permit Process, maybe. You still need to have health and safety requirements met by Building Division along with Fire Department, Water Department and State Health and Safety requirements. The Building Division requires the school or landowner to hire an engineer familiar with commercial educational codes to put together all their requirements. They won’t even look at plans unless they have a commercial engineer’s stamp. Were not talking residential here and there’s a big difference. The Building Department won’t even talk to you or me about what’s necessary. To get through the Building Division process, you again can’t be operating a school or you face $1,000 a day fine plus a year in jail – that’s what shuts them down. So the landowner has to be willing to invest another $15,000 or so to meet Building Division’s requirements. And to be honest $30,000 would be cheap to meet it all. I’ve spent $58,000 for the first study on a 5-acre site and still don’t know if it’s going to happen. But again, there is no money for a charter school to spend on any of this because they are barred from doing so.

This is the reason, Bob the federal law was written to give the charter schools their autonomy. Did you ever wonder why it takes 20 years and 18 million of your taxpayer dollars to start a DOE public school?

-Puna Haku

[Menehune]

Look out! Sarcasm approaching! [:p]

So what I am reading is:

We (charter schools)do not have the means to achieve our ends (opening a charter school)![V]

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

The end (opening up a charter school) justifies the means (anyway we can)![}]

Joni Mitchell had it right!

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
and a swinging hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged all the people
A dollar and a half to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And they put up a parking lot

Hey farmer farmer
Put away that D.D.T. now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my old man
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

It's O.K. now! Sarcasm has left the forum![]

Or at least taking a breathe![]

[Beachboy]

Ah yes Menehune, nothing like Joni Mitchell in the morning! That song was sooooo awesome, and yes so fitting to the circumstances we find WOL in.

I'd like to know from the people who have posted here on this thread what your stake is in all of this bruhaha. Is your home near one of the campuses in HPP? Or are you tied to the other charter school in the park...you know, the other one that cost money to attend?

I keep hearing people say how thoughtless WOL was to enroll students into their schools that were not safe to begin with?!? [:0] Well. let me be the first to say my 9yr old attends WOL school, and I can only speak for one campus. The campus/house my son attends is a brand new house! I feel it's totally safe to drop my son off daily there. Hell, I have friends who houses in Puna are far less secure than my boy's school. This really does appear to mostly be a problem[s] that MWS has created for WOL!!

Before putting my son in WOL, he attended Kea'au Elementary School. Kea'au Elementary School is by far the worse school anyone in my family has ever attended in the 50th state! To go from the best school in the state(Liholiho Elementary School) to the worst (Kea'au Elementary School) was quite a wake up call! I was feeling extremely guilty over it too. It was the direct result of me moving my family from Oahu to Puna...then comes along WOL!!! I'm given another chance to get the situation right for my son[s],and I take full advantage of it too. Sure, there are problems within the walls of WOL, but don't all school come with growing pains?

I think any parent or adult who feels the need to get into the day to day affairs of WOL should either have child attending there, or live on the same street as one of their two campuses in HPP. Otherwise they should mind their own business! There is just to much at stake here for a few "armchair quarterbacks", to ad there venomous 2 cents to this very touchy subject!

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“Ever wonder about those people who spend $2 apiece on those little bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backward.

George Carlin