Speeding on the Coast Highway

[leilanidude]

I would suspect that's what you would suspect. But only limited to all Hawaii good road contractors?
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There is a very long and verifiable history of Hawaii road contractors milking projects.
A certain bridge north of Hilo, for example as one of the most egregious.

[HiloJulie]

There is a very long and verifiable history of Hawaii road contractors milking projects.
A certain bridge north of Hilo, for example as one of the most egregious.

How about posting some of this long and verifiable history then?

Taking your opinion and stating it as fact does not make it fact. 

But you do do it with such amazing confidence! 

But I must say, I do love this "everybody is screwing over everybody every time" mindset some of you have!

[leilanidude]

There is a very long and verifiable history of Hawaii road contractors milking projects.
A certain bridge north of Hilo, for example as one of the most egregious.

How about posting some of this long and verifiable history then?

Taking your opinion and stating it as fact does not make it fact. 

But you do do it with such amazing confidence! 

But I must say, I do love this "everybody is screwing over everybody every time" mindset some of you have!

First with a new one coming along. The small number of contractors able to do these jobs invites cost disasters. They seem to take turns at who will get the contracts and the bids tend to be surprisingly close to each other, considering they can be for tens and tens of millions.

https://bigislandnow.com/2025/02/18/bids...-estimate/

But, you being a relative newbie, the long history of road and bridge cost overruns and change orders may be unknown to you.

[Obie]

The County as they usually do, underestimated the cost and provided the contractor with a survey of the construction are that was incorrect.
The contractor wisely built a survey road and revised their bid based on the conditions that they found. The county and the contractor then negotiated and eventually came to an agreement.

This added time to the project and the county has to pay more but I'm not sure how much.

"But extra fill is a very easy to compute change order.
X number of additional loads times X dollars per load, plus delivery"

Try maybe 100,000 loads.
They actually bring in a portable rock crushing plant and make their own fill.
Don't take my word for it, drive down to 4 corners and take a look or better yet, go down on a Sunday and drive up over the berm on the left side and drive the survey road to Pohoiki.

Take a sturdy 4x4 jeep.

I have friends who did this a couple of months ago and they took a video. She limited who can see the video so I can't post it here.
The hills and valleys are impressive and nothing like the highway 132 construction.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The hills and valleys are impressive

You can see the type of road you’d end up with if the hills and valleys weren’t leveled:
Kaloli Dr
Paradise Dr
Maku’u Dr

Try maybe 100,000 loads.

My neighbor brought in cinder to smooth out his one acre lot - 30 loads. It was a fairly level lot to begin with.  Now multiply by miles and expand for extremely uneven terrain.  Probably 100,000.

[HiloJulie]

First with a new one coming along. The small number of contractors able to do these jobs invites cost disasters. They seem to take turns at who will get the contracts and the bids tend to be surprisingly close to each other, considering they can be for tens and tens of millions.
https://bigislandnow.com/2025/02/18/bids...-estimate/

Yes, I posted about this project in another thread several days ago.

Post 28

As for the small number of contractors able to do this work, what would be a “better” answer? Having the County, State and/or Federal Government spend a few hundred million MORE (TAXPAYER DOLLARS) on public works road building projects so we can get MORE than a handful of contractors to do this work? Maybe pave every mile of substandard subdivision roads?

Where would these new additional contractors come from? How would these new contractors be able to get the tens of millions of dollars of equipment needed to do road building work? And then, were would all the additional workers needed to fulfill such an arrangement come from? And live?

Further, could it be that the range of bids being close has something to do with the knowledge of the contractors submitting the bids? Or must it always be a nefarious, underhanded and corrupt scenario?

I would assume you know that public works projects, such as these road building projects, and the bridge projects are “contract cost substantiated” contracts. All costs incurred, be it proposed in the bid and as expensed during the actual work are substantiated to the contracting arm of the government, be it the County, the State or the Federal Government or any combination. Labor costs are substantiated thru certified payrolls that prove all hours worked have been paid, most commonly as “prevailing” wages or under the construction trades various unions. Third party material suppliers must attest with what’s known as a lien waiver that the general contractor has paid them and the amounts of their payments. Sub-contractors have the same compliance requirements as well and must be disclosed up front in the bid.

Additionally, most of these contractors limit the amount the contractor can charge for its indirect and overhead costs as well as profit, generally a set percentage over the actual direct costs incurred.

As well as these projects require the contractor to put up a payment and performance bond that guarantees the contractors performance and payment of all costs incurred during the project. These bonding costs can be up to 5% of the actual bid amount and can vary due to the contractors past performance history, its financial make-up, as well as require the owners to possibly have to put up personal lines of credit to support the issuance of said bonds.

But, you being a relative newbie, the long history of road and bridge cost overruns and change orders may be unknown to you.

Well now, my husband and I bought our 3 lots in the Acres in 1986. Spent 2.5 years building our main home. Moved here in 1989, although commuted back and forth to the mainland for 30ish years, but, yes, I am still a newbie, and what could I possibly know about the long history of road and bridge cost overruns and change orders?

But you say it with such astounding confidence!

The County as they usually do, underestimated the cost and provided the contractor with a survey of the construction are that was incorrect.

The contractor wisely built a survey road and revised their bid based on the conditions that they found. The county and the contractor then negotiated and eventually came to an agreement.
This added time to the project and the county has to pay more but I'm not sure how much.

"But extra fill is a very easy to compute change order.
X number of additional loads times X dollars per load, plus delivery"
Try maybe 100,000 loads.
They actually bring in a portable rock crushing plant and make their own fill.

Don't take my word for it, drive down to 4 corners and take a look or better yet, go down on a Sunday and drive up over the berm on the left side and drive the survey road to Pohoiki.

Take a sturdy 4x4 jeep.

I have friends who did this a couple of months ago and they took a video. She limited who can see the video so I can't post it here.

The hills and valleys are impressive and nothing like the highway 132 construction.

I can appreciate all that. I don’t need to take a sturdy gas guzzling 4X4 jeep to understand common sense.

I’d say bringing in a portable rock crushing plant and making their own fill was a brilliant idea on behalf of the contractor.

But I highly doubt that was doable for pennies on the dollar. The purchase price of a 2025 D9 is north of 2 million. How many do you want? And you want it shipped WHERE??

[leilanidude]

The purchase price of a 2025 D9 is north of 2 million. How many do you want? And you want it shipped WHERE??
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Lots of hardened D9's on the island. They were also used during the Saddle Road realignment.

[HiloJulie]

Lots of hardened D9's on the island. They were also used during the Saddle Road realignment.

Thats a definite possibility. But someone once laid out the initial capital to buy it.

I'd also say it's quite safe to assume that NAN and Isemoto and Kiewit move those D-9's around island to island depending on needs.

The point is, it aint cheap.

And the further point, the contractors' costs must be substantiated.

[Obie]

"I can appreciate all that. I don’t need to take a sturdy gas guzzling 4X4 jeep to understand common sense."

I was talking about driving on the survey road to get an idea of what they are dealing with. You would need a 4x4 jeep to do that but forget I said that. It's no longer accessible.

[HiloJulie]

"I was talking about driving on the survey road to get an idea of what they are dealing with."

We had about a 750 foot "driveway" plus house pad/backyard area cleared back in 1988 and what it took for them to do that was amazing.

For example, moving forward on "blue rock" for 50 feet and the suddenly having the D9 sinking into mud only to hit more blue rock another 30 or 40 feet ahead and all the different substrates in-between was indeed mind-blowing.

I can imagine what grading a lava field a little over 5 - 6 years old must be like.