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If I see a rat I try to trap him with a have-a-heart then let him go in a more remote location...If I have to kill it then I have to kill it.....Just don't tell me which one I HAVE TO DO and base your decision on some BS science..
No one should bring any animal int Hawaii that is not permitted....but if it happens, then it happens.......snakes have a right to live too! In fact, I am surprised the "Brain Surgeons" haven't wanted to bring in a snake to deal with the frog problem......
The turtles and Tortoises listed in the newspaper should not have been brought in, but if you read up on their Anatomy and morphology ....you would see that none of the species posed much of a threat....they would not be able to reproduce or survive in the Hawaiian wilds.....But it makes for a GREAT STORY....(I'm thinking of Paris Hilton again)
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So "ALL life, both plants and animals, have a right to survive anywhere on this planet", but not in your living room?
That's more or less the reasoning in Hawaii too. I don't want to drive coquis to extinction, I just want them back where they belong.
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That's right....
I feel understood....but then we are right back to the beginning as to what is invasive??? Who gets to decide? I just get a kick out of everyone getting their panties in a bunch over what should be a relative non-issue.
A guy wanted to make a profit by breaking the law (there is a novel concept all you pot (invasive species) growers out there). The Species are profitable because people want to buy them (Hello to all the smokers that buy from the growers)...The Govt doesn't want them here because they want to "freeze Hawaii in time" and because of past experiences and the loss of fragile species, and it would take extra work (remember Govt employees here) to develop a plan to allow some other animals other than dogs and cats. And of course the "BIG STORY" makes us all thank full that they are there to save us from our selves.......
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I just try to remember that I am a small fish in this BIG pond, always do the right thing, A higher power is in controll, and keep the DRAMA to a minimum...
Steve
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That's always been a great question, time being relative, what is a native species? A native specicies, and a native people, is what and who some governmental entity says it/they are and, like 808 says, whoever decides to bear arms under some entitlement; at any given moment in time. Thank god my st. croix sheep are native!!
Not all laws are enacted for 'the greater good' and the 'middle class' either.
It's funny, my daughter Antoinette had pet rats. She let them out of the cage all the time to run around and play. One day (we lived in a condo) a 'foreign' rat ran across the counter top early in the morning and she screamed and ran frightened; explain it to me...
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In the case of many invasive species the issue is not how bad the invasive species is but what impact it has on native species. If mongooses didn't push native birds to the brink of extinction there would not be so much concern over them being here. For that reason I do not think that mongooses have the "right" to survive in Hawaii since their survival here means the demise of certain other creatures. It all depends on how much you care about the "rights" of each species relative to every other species. It is impossible to address this issue without going on record that one species or another must take precedence over another.
The part about prioritizing the needs of different species in some meaningful way that has teeth is where the rubber meets the road. As diplomatically as possible I say that the concept that "ALL life, both plants and animals, have a right to survive anywhere on this planet" is a statement that only has meaning in the context of a human value system. If there were no people then the succession of species would be neither here nor there. If however people are around to say animals have rights or that a given ecosystem has intrinsic value (aesthetic, economic?) then the debate begins. If the merits of different species are to be debated than a lot of boring and tedious research and analysis must be done on which to base decisions, that is unless you don't really care about getting the right answer. If you conduct that research and analysis or if you respect that done by others, which most of us do when we accept medical treatment without having gone to medical school ourselves, you will be forced to accept certain facts such as that certain native Hawaiian birds are being driven to extinction by certain introduced animals such as mongooses and that you will have to choose between the birds and the mongooses. You will have to go on record as saying that mongooses DON'T have the right to live in Hawaii. Otherwise you will by default have said that the endangered birds DON'T have the right to live here.
It is indeed totally subjective but there is no way around it.
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we as people are invasive on these islands - all of of arrived from somewhere else - man and most of the warm blooded vertebrate residents are not native to this island ecology
when do invasive species become naturalized is the question
It's inconceivable to me that anyone can defend the arrival of invasive species, plant or animal. Ohia trees and most bird species came on the jet stream. I suppose invasives would be those introduced by man, arguably the most invasive of all. One of the problems is that species evolve here with alarming speed. Five years ago, lowland mosquitoes couldn't survive in Volcano, but we now have a small population of rather non-agressive mosquitoes. These were originally brought by sailor's water supplies. It would have been nice if there were protections in place in the 1800's. I enjoy going out into the rainforest and not worrying about poisonous plants or animals. It's one of the things I love about living in Volcano. Snakes and poison ivy and more will change all that. I hope not in my lifetime. Our biology is still very fragile. Mosquitoes are killing the I'iwe bird. Only recently are a very making it back down to 4,000 feet and they are very much in jeopardy. Eventually the mosquito will evolve to where it can live at 6,000 feet and the I'iwe will disappear.
The basic problem is that these species have not evolved here and many do not have the natural predator system of their local habitat. Before Capt. Cook there was no syphilis. Thanks to that invasive, 90% of Hawaiians were wiped out. What happens when rabies makes its way here? The devastation will be cataclysmic. Anarchy is a fun thought but far from practical.
As far aa enforcement of the importation laws being described as violent, GIVE ME A BREAK. According to your logic a murderer or a thief should be allowed to continue on his merry way.
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It's not subjective at all. Invasive species, which often number in their millions in many places in the world, vs endemic species that only exist here. Not a difficult choice.
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Does anyone know what 808 refers to when he mentions Dyncorp? Glad they're not working in Puna. I think he's referring to their overseas operation Eastern Europe.
When they catch these smugglers, feed em to the turtles. I remember when folks on the north shore would have sea turtles chained to palm trees. Guess they' eat em.
