Native Hawaiians in support of TMT

[PaulW]

"That means in times of shortages the telescopes on the summit get first dibs on the power verses all the other users on the island"

Anti-telescope rabble-rousing lies. By the way, it's "versus".

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Worrying about electricity use (by the TMT), while important, is a red herring.

gypsy, how many red herring did you catch the last time your went fishing on Kona side? Do you think there is any connection between the TMT's electrical use that we now know may involve at least one red herring, possible more, which could directly create a reduction of their population in the ocean*, not to mention coral bleaching?

* More TMT red herring, less ocean red herring

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[kalakoa]

these questions should be answered before any further development occurs on any ceded land anywhere in the state

Thus "anti-development", which translates into "anti-telescope".

I agree in principle -- but I also note history's record of how these issues were handled with the previous "native peoples" -- they eventually attained recognition and some lands to call their own, how long did that take and how many had to die?

[MarkP]

The arguments against the TMT that are being raised such as mercury poisoning, contamination of the aquifer, and desecration of sacred lands in no way allow for the TMT to be built should the sovereignty issue be resolved. They are in and of themselves against the TMT. They represent a scorched earth policy against the TMT and it really is insulting to the intelligence of any clear thinking individual to be asked to overlook that. That is over and above the fact that such arguments are empty to begin with.

[TomK]

dakine wrote:

"Take statements I made earlier out of context and accuse me of all sorts of heinous crimes."

Wow, what melodrama. What heinous crimes have you been accused of committing?

[TomK]

dakine,

"As I have said many times here, I think these questions should be answered before any further development occurs on any ceded land anywhere in the state. And that as such the TMT is a flash point, an icon of these issues, not the real issue itself. But rather than dealing with that, even though several of us, each in our own way, have said as much, they obviously find it to be a very uncomfortable issue and accuse most of us that are not blindly supportive of the TMT to be against it. For me, because of the way they go about it, I find them to be very disrespecting and as such have given up engage in discourse with them."

If the TMT isn't the real issue, why have you (and others) posted lies about it? I can't think of a more simple question to ask.

[kalakoa]

by working out their differences peacefully the Hawaiian Nation and the USA together can be a harbinger of a new era of solving differences in which violence need not apply

Today's Western wars aren't fought with violence; instead, we use economic sanctions.

Seen this way, actions by the "protectors" are somewhat ironic -- fighting an embargo to keep money out of the local economy.

"When the dog drowns, the fleas drown too."

[Eric1600]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakine
But see that's my hope kalkoa, that those fights, between native groups and colonizing regimes of the past that cost so many lives before they were settled are emblematic of a time gone by, of a way of solving things that need not be practiced today. That by working out their differences peacefully the Hawaiian Nation and the USA together can be a harbinger of a new era of solving differences in which violence need not apply. That wrongs can be acknowledged and righted in a way that exemplifies us as an evolving, maturing, society.

---

So basically you're fighting against a telescope because you feel culturally guilty? This is a telescope that is an entirely new deal for Hawaii. They are paying millions in rent, education scholarships, and in environmental protection. And they are providing jobs for Hawaiians. The end product will inspire millions of people to awe at the greatness of the universe. It seems like this is exactly what you'd support: "That wrongs can be acknowledged and righted in a way that exemplifies us as an evolving, maturing, society."

[leilanidude]

@dakine - What if the other islands want to go back to before Kamehameha took them over, by force? Or is that different, somehow? Where do you draw the line on how far to go back to?

[PaulW]

"The heavens can wait, they aren't going anywhere" = anti-telescope. No use denying.