Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii

[Rob Tucker]

Lot's of non-conforming work by lot's of reasonably unskilled builders. My experience says do not count on the county to protect you from shoddy work. They are about as good at that as the dude that built the steps without a landing.

Try to remember that in most things Hawaii is thirty years behind the rest of the country.

And it shows.

Some of us kinda of like it that way but like everything there is an upside and a downside.

[Sandra A.]

Well stated Rob, I am used to it actually. It makes for witty conversation at a dull party. I think on the next project I will draft a lengthy check-by-check list of how to construct the structure to plans & code...checkmarks must be made for every Simpson clip, connector, strap, header size, J-bolt, make it so lengthy that the message is clear there is no room for slip-shot, corner-cut work. House to be built per plans & specs, no architect sign-off/cover-up letters []

[Rob Tucker]

I also recommend that when drafting an agreement or contract to build be as careful to list what is not included and you are to list what is included.

[Wao nahele kane]

Sandra I've been in construction for 30 plus years now. I've seen more idiots with credentials than I care to recall, most of them are only after contracts (your money). Never hire a General Contractor who doesn't insist that you look at some of their recent projects. Also visit, if any, present projects and see who's actually working the jobs. Get the names and numbers of others they have built for and actually talk to those people and try to visit them in person. A hands on General Contractor is most often the best bet when seeking the best care for the construction of your home, this is always true, regardless of what you see the big time contractors produce. This bussiness used to be simple, most Generals had a particular trade they practiced on the project (typically carpenters but not always). Ask them if they will be on the job daily all day long or if they will only visit periodically to check the progress of their people.

Ask them what their specialty is and ask them how they like it. Ask them what foundation forms they prefer to work with and why. Ask what the best hammer is for framing. Here's a great question sure to stump a half wit and catch a few experienced people off guard. Ask to see their tape measure. Open up the tape and ask them what the little black diamonds are for. They better have the answer real quick, otherwise they better be able to figure it out pretty quick. If they have no answer, show them the door and tell them goodbye because they are either green or stupid.
The diamonds are typically used for joist shoring applications and other specs that call for 5 members in 8'break centers (they should spout off "That's 19-2/10 On Center" if they are a true pro). etc, etc, the more questions you ask, the more you're going to discover about the person that you're considering.
Sorry to hear about the evident half-wit people you ended up with. But there's really no need to bother yourself with check lists etc... just hire a pro next time.

Just wanted to add... Rob made a very important point regarding the list of what is included vs. what's not included and who is responsible for which list.
Create two addendums typically cited as “Inclusions” and “Exclusions” or if it’s a small project, they can be combined into one form called “Inclusions and Exclusions”.
A good Contractor will already have these bases covered by default within the contract.


E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[Sandra A.]

Thanks Wao Nahele Kane. Just seems like not very good luck here, I'm hoping that stream of luck changes in the future. Yesterday I was joking about my sarcastic checklist idea with a carpenter on a project at my mother's and he laughed and said "I hope I'm not on that job"...ha-ha-ha. This guy has it together, very good work and professional. I can see where he wouldn't want to be monitored like that.

[Wao nahele kane]

Precisely Sandra and a real pro will go beyond the checklist and many times do something on the exclusions list just for GP.
I think the dilemma is in the fact there's just not enough on the island to gain that sort of knowledge. A select few may have the experience but I'm sure you're going to be hard-pressed until us old timers start rolling in (we are and have been, I was). I'm hanging it up and only going to work for self, friends in the future, volunteer, etc. The Hawaii codes regarding licensing are simply not worth my time to pull up records to prove to them I am worthy to be a contractor as most are15 years or older. If it were a fair test; I’d do it again… maybe. Real tests are the only way to separate those with knowhow from those who don’t know how. I often laugh at given states requirements as they miss the mark by hundreds even thousands of miles from protecting YOU the consumer. Bonds and insurance don’t cover squat and are eaten up and gone by the time you bring in an attorney and win in court. The only safeguard to get a good product is to hire a real pro with many years of a wide range of construction experience under their belt. No license, bonding or insurance can guarantee this better; a real pro is always the best bet. BTW… Most will hate architects, real estate agents and despise the building department as they are the vultures in our industry, stealing from YOU and us. Just a little inside scoop there. I’m sure there are a couple true half ass greenhorns who would disagree.
Just as Double 007 has a license to kill… a licensed contractor has a license to screw you. So beware of the true reality involved there. Truly, I dislike many contractors I've met through the recent years, they don't care much anymore these days, most are scam artists now.

E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[bewitchedinhilo]

Wao nahele kane,

I read this post last night and was pretty excited to see that you might actually be starting the beginnings of some real activism that I could maybe participate in; I think that any state that adopts a code that is in violation of the constitution is because of the ineptitude (and I mean that sweetly) of the state's people to argue against it.

I wholly believe in a person's right to build a dwelling of their choice. I've seen and participated in some of the most amazing and perfectly habitable dwellings here and other places that would never pass the code. I believe a great deal of, what we in the u.s., call poverty is, in fact, brought on us by laws that appear in writing to protect the little guy, are obviously created, more importantly, to create industry. There's nothing wrong with industry. But once that tramples on a large number of people is pretty disgraceful.

But, you've gone too far when you say that there are not competent tradesmen and tradeswomen on this island. I think that you haven't been here at all, or haven't spent alot of time here. In fact, as I read your posts, I sort of begin to sense that you may be planning on coming here to gain as a jack of all trades. I have to tell you, there are alot of those here already as well. Join in the fun. And if you happen to love marijuana and want those laws changed, and if you happen to want to grow palm trees and sell a 1/2 gallon palm for $20, and if you happen to want to sell a backyard chicken (sorry, um, free range) for $10, come on down! Join the fun.

[Wao nahele kane]

Bewitched... Show where I said there are no competent tradesmen/tradeswomen on the island.
As per what you sence... how 'bout simply working with comprehending what was written first.
One step at a time there... k?





E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[sistersue]

I'm still pretty po-ed that the "building department" made me build one big house instead of two small houses. However I am glad I had to get hurricane straps and I'm glad now that they tortured me for months over how I wanted to build my porch. The house and porch seem stronger because of their "rules." But I'll always be angry that I couldn't build my house(s) the way I really wanted to.