Council to Decide on Plastic Bags for Big Island

[gtill]

Brown or pinkish paper works better on meat, as it absorbs moisture. But you don't see the product beneath it.

Ban all but wet produce type bags, and mandate they become biodegradable.

Back the ban with a Gavin Newsome move, and charge 1000$ fine for having any in your garbage! (SF Recycling Program).

[aprild]

Matt, Matt, Matt.

Those articles are from the same site--a site which compiles articles from various sources. It is a fast way to come up with different information on a subject from all over the place.

So you didn't bother to read anything. . .

Why don't you research some info on the production of paper bags and post it? Perhaps you can even find an article which compares paper vs. plastic. Then we'd have some real facts to sink our teeth into. And you'd be able to back up your claim.

I can't believe people think we can't get along without plastic packaging--how the heck did people live for decades without plastic? Can't any of you remember or imagine what it was like?

Remember butcher paper? Meat sat in a big refrigerated case and you pointed to what you wanted and the butcher wrapped it up. (And kids got it from the butcher to paint murals on in their classrooms at school.) I live in an area where meat is still sold that way--except in Safeway, of course. As for veggies, at the health food store we put those in brown bags, saved the bags--and they do dry out usually and retain their original shape--reuse them and/or bring them back to the store. Or you can just stick produce into your reusable bags. Those dry out, too.

Charging money for plastic certainly does help and so does paying money for recycling. Then plastic will be collected from the environment.

I think we need to reduce the production of plastic. Humans lived for centuries without it and I bet you we can exist without it again.




april

[Bob Orts]

I asked on of the supervisors in charge of roadway cleaning here on the mainland, to list in order what is collected alongside the roads. Here’s his list in order of the amount collected:

Paper soft* (sheets, wrappers, shreds)
Paper hard* (cardboard)
Construction material (pre and post)
Plastic container (hard and soft plastic containers and packaging)
Tires and rims
Cigarettes
Glass (sheet, containers, misc)
Food products (Pre and post)
Plastic Flats (grocery and garbage bags)
Wood products (excludes cuttings)

(* He stated that paper products account for 60% of trash removed from roadways)


Next I asked in what order they are a problem. Here’s his list as to the order and why:

Paper soft – Just so much it’s unbelievable – worst than plastic bags
Paper hard – tons of it
Plastic Flats – Visible - easily blows around – gets in strange places
Cigarettes – everywhere, in everything – hard to remove
Glass – extremely hard to remove when shattered
Plastic container – lots of it but easy to remove
Construction material – generally scattered - unsightly
Food products – health issues
Tires and rims – unsightly
Wood products - distraction

In your drive around Puna, what would your list be?

[Chuysmom]

I think we should just BAN 'em!!! My grandmother never got poisoned from using paper bags - I dunno where that one even came from. They are killing the land and animals and we did okay before we had them. As far as paper goes, there's plenty of recycled paper in the system to do shopping bags, if you don't want a reusable one.

Carrie Rojo

"The sun and moon collide. Isn't gravity a funny thing? The universe explodes apart. All the children sing..." Todd Rundgren

[james weatherford]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Orts

roadway cleaning

---

Not a useful point of assessment for the problem at hand.

Paper decomposes, and so does a lot of wood (I do not toss paper or wood on the roadside nor advise others to). Plastic does not decompose.

Plastic bags are blown by the wind and carried away from the roadside.

James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[rbakker]

Just banning something outright rarely works.

I used to work in a supermarket that only had paper bags for
packing. It was no good, the bags keep ripping. And you had
to use twice as many paper bags as plastic ones.

Here's a compromise:
Those that want to use plastic, do so.
Those that want to use paper, do so.

But do bring in a charge (eg 10c) for plastic shopping bags; getting
something for free has a strange effect on people.

[Greg]

I think Bob Ort's list was relevent in its absence of aluminum cans. Before the Hi-5 charge was implemented, I believe aluminum cans would have been high on the list of roadside trash.

This tells me that money has a greater influence on us lemmings than aesthetics or environmental concerns.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james weatherford
Not a useful point of assessment for the problem at hand.

---

That depends on why people think plastic bags are a problem. Plastic bags are much better in 5 of the 6 impact factors. Many of the negative things people say about plastic bags are pure nonsense and are based only on personal emotions (or ignorance) not on facts or truths. However, that's alright so long as it's talk.

But when you start asking government to get involved, you better know for sure what your asking and why. You better make sure the factual problems are being addressed. If people stupidly let those emotional reasons be part of the regulations, you will find other areas of your life being impacted that you had no intention or desire to be touched.

Fact is, the 6th factor is more than sufficient to justify a plastic bag ban on Hawaii. There is no reason to provide ammunition to those opposing a ban by brining in nonsense about the other 5 factors.
[]

[Kapohocat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg...
This tells me that money has a greater influence on us lemmings than aesthetics or environmental concerns...

---

YES YES YES. I agree. So many people do what the government has prohibited... two examples - speeding, and smoking weed... the motivation needs to be financial not legislative, or our limited county resources will be spent on tracking down plastic bag users.

[Kelena]

You would not be BANNING plastic bags. You would just be limiting the supply of them. No one is going to go to the grocery store WITH a plastic bag, shop, demand that things be put in a flimsy plastic bag, unload the stuff in a box in the car and then let the plastic bag fly as they tool down Highway 130.

So charge heavily for them, or eliminate them all together. On a wet, hot island, paper will break down more quickly and no turtles --you know, the ones that can't be left in peace any because someone wants to have a magical-Federal-law-violating moment harassing them-- will not be tempted to eat paper.

Chicobags are sturdy, strong, reusable, and the energy expended to create them will pollute China only! (And that place is a lost cause).