Hawaiians, Shorelines & “Mother Ocean’s” Revenge

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Let us shift discussion to the lies against TMT.

A random sampling of the TMT threads will easily turn up any number of them, as they have been so frequently repeated.
But off the top of my head:

* The TMT has lasers that will destroy small cities
* The TMT has military applications
* Telescopes on Mauna Kea make profits amounting to millions of dollars per year
* TMT approval was "rubber stamped." (Over a period of 7 years?)
* TMT is building on a burial site


If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff

[kalakoa]

you have no first-hand knowledge of Hawaii, or Puna for that matter

The long-term damage cause by actively driving business diversity away from a single-revenue-source economy requires no first-hand knowledge and is not specific to Hawaii and/or Puna.

Why worry? County can just make up the difference with another tax increase, no big deal.

[Guest]

HOTPE.

A couple TMT project partners like (China and India) are also a big part of the next space race. These countries will share TMT observatory time and Data. The JWST and TMT will also share Data that may be important for the different TMT partners. I would not like to see a calm and peaceful mountain like Mauna Kea become a target like pearl harbor once did, WW3 involvement perhaps.
Also, I would not like to see Data gathered from the TMT on Mauna Kea to help target other nations space satellites or their countries in any way. Even the TMT partners get very excited about the many possibilities they themselves cannot even fathom today with the use of the TMT's technology. The TMT equipment may someday be operational from elsewhere like maybe a Chinese battleship in the middle of the Pacific. The laser, mirrors and eye technologies of the TMT may be very important pieces to the TMT partners as well as other developing countries like N. Korea and Iran, for various reasons. jmo

https://news.vice.com/story/the-next-spa...-dominance

Universities like Yale already pay millions for viewing time with much smaller telescopes than the TMT. Not all Universities can compete for that viewing time with the Yale's, Harvard's or Princeton's budgets, including UHH and UH. jmo

When known Hawaiian shrines are removed from the TMT site and known Hawaiian ancestors have been buried on the summit of Maun Kea in places of secrecy. Then it may be possible to have Hawaiian burials on the TMT site and It may be hard to trust folks like Wally Ishibashi to protect or report them. jmo

Having TMT partners breaking ground or moving ground with heavy machine equipment before the important hearings and issues are resolved is like putting the cart before the horse. Permits should not have been granted to the TMT and there for it may have been Rubber-stamping the 18 story process. jmo

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Also, I would not like to see Data gathered from the TMT on Mauna Kea to help target other nations space satellites or their countries in any way.
jmo

gypsy,
If you have read the "ISS, Iridium..." thread on Punaweb, you would know a LEO satellite takes anywhere from 1-6 minutes to cross the sky. Spy satellites are often in a low earth orbit, because from that vantage point they are closest to the objects they wish to monitor. Closer in, better pictures.

Here is the operations page for the TMT:
http://www.tmt.org/observatory/operations

I don't know for certain, but TomK may be able to tell us whether the entire TMT dome and telescope can move across the sky in 6 minutes or less in order to track the satellites you imagine it will follow.

(From the TMT page: The ability to switch rapidly (about 10 min) between different instruments gives observational flexibility to respond to changes in scientific requirements (e.g., time critical observations; multi-instrument observations) and weather conditions.)

I doubt it can. I have seen the satellite tracking observatory on Maui, and it is much, much smaller than the TMT. It's smaller, lighter weight dome and telescope allow the motors and gears to perform the rapid tracking movements necessary so it may follow a satellite from one horizon to the other.

Get it out of your mind gypsy.
The TMT is not a military satellite tracking facility.
The TMT lasers cannot "blow stuff up."
India & China do not need the TMT to send people into space. They're already orbiting taikonauts without the TMT.

You're not only running on fumes. You're huffing those fumes.

If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Gypsy,
You ask a lot of questions. Do you read the answers?

You state, and imply that UH & UHH cannot possibly compete with the big universities for viewing time on Mauna Kea's telescopes:
Not all Universities can compete for that viewing time with the Yale's, Harvard's or Princeton's budgets, including UHH and UH. jmo

But just yesterday TomK explained UH receives 15% of the observatories viewing time:
The observatories' rent is provided by giving the University of Hawaii free access to the telescopes, typically 15% of observing time each year. This cost is borne by the observatories and comes out of their operating costs. For each of the larger observatories, this can amount to a few million dollars a year.

If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff

[MarkD]

Gypsy you have an extraordinary capacity to compel other writers into spending huge amounts of time responding to you. I have never seen anything like it.

What is strange is that even though several commentators repeatedly assert that they hate your opinions, it almost seems like they enjoy engaging with you.

"You're not only running on fumes. You're huffing those fumes." That's good HOTPE. Prime candidate for Humor Section 2.

I suppose we are providing some entertainment to bored Puna residents on this sleepy Sunday.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Permits should not have been granted to the TMT and there for it may have been Rubber-stamping...

I don't believe the definition of "rubber stamp" is what you think it is:

rub·ber stamp
noun
2.a person or organization that gives automatic approval or authorization to the decisions of others, without proper consideration.

verb
1. approve automatically without proper consideration.
"the college would not rubber-stamp its athletes for graduation"

The TMT approval process including meetings, EIS, etc required 7 years. That can hardly be called automatic approval.

If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

compel other writers into spending huge amounts of time responding to you

Depends how fast you type.

If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff

[leilanidude]

Universities like Yale already pay millions for viewing time with much smaller telescopes than the TMT. Not all Universities can compete for that viewing time with the Yale's, Harvard's or Princeton's budgets, including UHH and UH. jmo
---------

HAVE YOU PAID ZERO ATTENTION to anything in the past 20+ years?

UHH and UH already receive millions of $ worth of FREE observing time from the observatories on Mauna Kea, annually!

[Guest]

This is a nice recent article regarding UHH and some of their under-rated programs.

http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/uh-hilo-ha...-research/

This is a recent institute for Astronomy article that has a picture of the first Native Hawaiian to complete the UH PD program in Astronomy, Awesome. It says that nearly every astronomical breakthrough in the last 50 years has involved telescopes from Hawaii. Yet, only recently or conveniently did our first Native Hawaiian complete the program in Astronomy. Why has it taken so many decades for this to be achieved?

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/front_page_news/

Leilanidude, I have not found or heard of anything like the recent articles above from say 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, years ago. Maybe your research or UHH and UH Astronomy knowledge is better than mine and you could be so kind to post a few archived articles with Native Hawaiian astronomy achievements to back up your highlights? All that free observing time and millions annually has amounted to how many Native Hawaiian Astronomy careers on Mauna Kea thus far?