Jones act hurting Puerto Rico?

[TomK]

MArkD wrote:

"So we do not disturb this thread anymore, I'll post a new thread within a day on unsubstantiated comments."

Please try to be concise when you do so.

[tada]

I think the Jones act is good for Oahu but bad for the Big Island because it keeps out the riff raff. The Jones act is why they advertise 2 Whoppers for $6 on tv and you go to BK and never find it. Repeal means more Big boxes, more of your fav fast food places but on Oahu there's no more space. So maybe Jones act exemption should be specified for the Big Island?
If it was practical anyway.

[Eric1600]

geochem:

I will also take strong issue with Eric1600's comment that this is a small tax: a couple of years ago, I had a mainland shipping broker tell me that, for the cost of transporting each shipping container to me in Hawaii, he could ship two containers - ---- to India.

The tax is complex and it affects certain conditions more than others. Any time you can ship with a flag of convenience it's going to undercut any US Flagged ship. Compound that with US staff and US made ships, there's the most extreme cost difference you can find. Add in comparing a low volume route (CA? to Hawaii vs CA to India) and you'll see the difference at it's most extreme. So many empty containers go back to India, China, Singapore that shipping in that direction is very cheap and there are many companies to compete for it. Your example is probably the best extreme you could have found. I also bet the shipper didn't include India's crazy importation duty costs in that comparison and just was talking about the shipping rate. The Jones Act would be more equivalent to import duty; it's just paid up front on the shipping cost.

And I didn't mean to say that the tax wasn't significant, just that it is not significant enough to kill the economy such as it is. I do feel that with the Jones Act Hawaii will have a hard time developing any industries that can compete with the mainland if it involves shipping physical products either way (unlike, say software development). However were we to be hit hard like Puerto Rico, then recovery would be tough with the extra tax and the huge need for importation.

Frank:

"In Hawaii's case the economy is strong enough to support the additional tax burden and still grow"

your tale above ?

I'm interested in timely responses, to situations of nation involving natural disasters, by my government. Seems to be happening...seems better than Katrina


You can look at the state's numbers yourself: http://dbedt.hawaii.gov/economic/qser/outlook-economy/

Even in the best of scenarios I don't think the response to Puerto Rico could be better than Katrina. PR is dramatically more isolated and more devastated. Not to mention they are cash poor. It doesn't help that Trump can't realize this is a tough challenge and people are desperate. Instead he just tosses blame around and even the general he put in charge says not enough is being done: http://thehill.com/policy/defense/353137...-of-relief

A mature president would just take the criticism and try to mobilize more help and relief funds.

[randomq]

I feel like no matter how good the response, we'd be hearing the same blame and criticisms. Politics has devolved into smear and win at any cost. It's too bad Puerto Rico has become the latest political issue.

If a Hurricane wiped out Puna, who would we blame for our misfortune? Many of us are already living miles from the nearest county water, in old or substandard structures, on barely passable roads, distant from medical help. Do we get to blame someone else for all of that when tragedy strikes?

Personally, I'm stocked up on potable water, rice, jars of peanut butter, canned food, and propane. I could hang on for a couple months if needed. None of that is that expensive, and I hope our Puna family is prepared and resilient in the face of disaster!

[leilanidude]

A Billion $ in initial aid and 10,000 military personnel already assigned, with more on the way.

Here in Puna, we learned a quick and hard lesson from Iselle on how long any response takes when you are on an isolated island. Nothing happens the day after the storm. People and resources have to be shipped in and that takes time. Puerto Rico is learning the same lesson.

randomq - you are correct. There are folks who will try to demonize everything in a political fashion these days. Kinda surprised that a couple of these folks haven't blamed Trump for causing the hurricanes just yet.

[kalakoa]

blamed Trump for causing the hurricanes

Gaia's response is at least 5-10 years out.

[Frank]

Eric

Everyone I know would have a chance to be better off financially if we did not have to pay for the Jones Act. No other State in the US pays this duty, based on a percentage of cost of goods, to the tune that we do. We pay on everything shipped in - 65-85% maybe? on everything we buy. The people we send to Washington support it, NO discussion about working to exempt Hawaii at all. and we wonder why its expensive to live here...the States numbers do not reflect the cost associated with the Jones Act...anyone have any clue as to the costs?

"Not to mention they are cash poor." Of course they are and so would we if our entire power grid went down. How many folks do you know who deal in cash? Everyone I know do debit, credit, or ebt cards. Useless with no power

You speak as if Trump has only 1 item to deal with, PR...need I list all the items that's on his plate? Please...and what makes you think the President isn't working to mobilize more help and funds for PR, Texas, Florida??

[kalakoa]

We pay on everything shipped in - 65-85% maybe?

Does anyone really think that margin would be returned to the consumer if Hawaii were Jones-exempt?

[leilanidude]

from Eric's own link:

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/353137...-of-relief

"The Defense Department has not sent enough troops and vehicles to hurricane-ravaged Puerto Rico but will soon send more, according to the three-star general newly in charge of coordinating the military response.

Army Lt. Gen. Jeff Buchanan said Friday morning that the Pentagon has 10,000 people helping with the response after Hurricanes Irma and Maria ripped through Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands earlier this month.

“We're certainly bringing in more [troops]," Buchanan said on CNN’s “New Day.”

* So the Defense Department is in charge of the response and if one goes thru the whole article, it shows that they mobilized a lot of people right away, and are continuing to send more.

---------

If this happened on Oahu, there would be almost zero delay in getting help with the large amount of troops stationed there. This island? Much different story as we are 250 miles away and supplies and people have to come by plane, helicopter (hope they don't make noise) and ship.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

There are folks who will try to demonize everything in a political fashion these days.

Note the response and comments after hurricanes in Texas & Florida.
Why is it different for Puerto Rico?
It's rather disingenuous to claim it's due to political demonization, when in reality an accurate assessment by those on the ground is what's being reported. Not phoney optimism from people putting around on a golf course this weekend. Seven over par, la dee da.

Puna was somewhat fortunate during Iselle, as we live in a largely rural area where many residents own trucks and chain saws. They quickly cleared one lane passages through our roadways. We could get out for supplies, and help could get in for recovery efforts within a day or two, even through massive downed albezias.

The Donner Party really wasn't that great of a party, was it?