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quote:
Originally posted by DanielP
Most of the traffic is thru traffic.
It doesn't sound like you have given fair study to the downsides of roundabouts.
No, I do not believe that most of the traffic on 130 is thru.
Most of it, especially during busiest times, comes out of (in order) HPP, Orchidland, and Ainaloa. That is not 'thru' traffic, as in traveling from Pahoa to Keaau.
Sorry, seriously!, if it appears I haven't given consideration to all aspects of roundabouts. My irritation comes from the off-hand dismissals and misrepresentations.
Of course roundabouts are not for each and every intersection.
Currently, the County and the State have repeatedly refused to even taken them seriously and give them a fair consideration.
To reveal, part of my hyper sensitivity about Hwy 130 intersections derives from having come upon two separate fatal crashes, one at Makuu and one (very nasty and bloody) at Kaloli.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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Dr. J,
Cute how you cropped my quote, deleting "at each intersection"... most of the traffic is thru traffic.
"At each intersection" is the crux of the point.
Talk about "misrepresenting what I said."
Pau!
Posts: 1,779
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Joined: Aug 2006
Daniel,
I was not trying to be 'cute'.
On re-re-reading your statement, I see what you mean.
But the use of 'thru traffic' as you use it, does not address the issue with roundabouts.
Can we both try to get an objective study?
quote:
Originally posted by DanielP
Dr. J,
Cute how you cropped my quote, deleting "at each intersection"... most of the traffic is thru traffic.
"At each intersection" is the crux of the point.
Talk about "misrepresenting what I said."
Pau!
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
Posts: 2,466
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Joined: May 2008
How much land will a typical roundabout require?
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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quote:
Originally posted by EightFingers
How much land will a typical roundabout require?
60% increase in ROW.
Posts: 1,839
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Dr. J,
It was not my intention to get into a pissing match with you.
In the past I have admired many of your thoughtful posts on many subjects.
On the subject of roundabouts you seem to have a more narrow and passionate view; i.e. never discussing the drawbacks, only the proponent's position.
Way back in college in my speech and debate classes, we were taught that in order to make strong and persuasive arguments, one should first study and learn to argue the opposition's point of view. Play devil's advocate as it were.
I think that an OBJECTIVE study is a fabulous idea, but I don't think that that was what I was hearing from you. I would hope to hear from you (as a well studied person on the issue) a discussion which embraces the difficulties associated with roundabouts.
If you go back and read my first post on the issue, I was mainly discussing stop-gap solutions while studies and planning were done and the need to acquire right of ways NOW while it is as easy as it ever will be.
I think that connectivity and a secondary road system plan is of utmost importance.
Aloha neighbor,
Dan
Bob, Have you sent your engineer friend a map of Puna? LOL!
Dan
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts
quote:
Originally posted by EightFingers
How much land will a typical roundabout require?
60% increase in ROW.
Bob, what is your source on this?
The general description (I'll dig out the ref) is something like this:
A roundabout requires more space within the intersection.
A signal intersection requires more space leading up to the intersection when there is a right turn lane.
The total difference may be nil.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
Posts: 1,581
Threads: 26
Joined: Jun 2007
quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
Bob, what is your source on this?
I took the only roundabout near me and overlaid the before and after drawings, the additional land needed was 60%. Not very scientific I admit. Upon further review of other roundabouts in other states, it looks like 60% was way too low. But, that’s what eminent domain is for.
