From SPACE down to Earth - the outcome?

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by terry.way

Let's imagine that there are several commercial ventures already in the neighborhood, say a chiropractor and a car repair place. This is clearly hypothetical, you understand. Would the community support having these services at SPACE, properly zoned? And could SPACE continue the more popular activities, the farmer's market, under this new plan.

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Under the village/community/neighborhood center concept, THEY DON'T HAVE TO MOVE TO SPACE, they can stay right where they are and operate. You are joking about thinking this mixed used floating overlay means SPACE will become the "center" in a community? If you belive what you're saying, you are lying to the people.

[JWFITZ]

Bunk, Bob.

Again, I'll say, when Walmart supports "for community projects with no profit incentive", well, I'll back Walmart too.


http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[Rob Tucker]

I do think that talking about chains of fast foods joints coming to the Kalapana area is misleading - and I am guilty of using the analogy too. This is where theory and realities can collide. While it is true in theory that a commercial zoned property is fertile ground for planting most any future commercial venture the population of the Red Road area - even at any potential build out - is likely not sufficient to support corporate chains. Add to that the fact that lava zone 1 makes insurance an expensive item I would suggest that the needs of the Red Road area will continue to be met by the residents of the Red Road area and this is how the present situation has evolved. If these local resident hunger for brand name fast food they will be driving to Pahoa (over the rift) for decades to come.

Any foreseen village center development in the Red Road area will most likely be local entrepreneurs who are passionate about what they do, where they do it and woefully under capitalized.

[terry.way]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Orts
The issue of the meeting not addressing the concerns of the neighbors speaks volumes about cooperation. If a landowner in violation of the SUP really were community minded, they would have gone out of their way to give people who have issues, a chance to voice those issues.

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I was misunderstood. The meeting was held for exactly that purpose. The purpose wasn't to solve problems, or address issues, in the sense that addressing means to solve them, or raise defensive points.

quote:

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As for the person who built after SPACE, that person has EVERY RIGHT to complain if the activities they are complaining about is the result of SPACE violation of their SUP. This is the issue everyone is avoiding addressing. The activities occurring in violation of an SUP is not allowed. A property buyer who does their due diligence can only rely upon the SUP to guide them as to what activities will occur. If something is happening outside the SUP it doesn’t matter if the person bought before, during, after, or that same weekend. It’s a violation of the SUP and SPACE is wrong.

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Let me be clear. We're both starting to repeat ourselves, a sign that either 1) we're not being clear or 2) we're not listening.

The worst noise that SPACE generated, the event that sparked Scott to complain to the County, was permitted by the SUP. End of story. Hiccup Circus has historically had drums in their shows. It was a class, a circus class. African dance. There were less than the number of cars parked, at the facility, than estimated in the application for the SUP. It occurred during daylight hours, well before any 9:00PM or 10:00PM cutoff.

It was within the noise levels. I witnessed this myself. SPACE got a hold of a decibel meter, and measured it, at the property line.

It's an activity within the SUP. Does this make sense? We all have the right to make noise down here. So, please understand that it isn't about the noise.

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Now, on to a completely separate topic. The Farmer's Market. The Farmer's Market is completely outside the SUP. But nobody, except one crank vendor who got all upset because another vendor was selling scones too, and the market managers wouldn't give her a monopoly on scones, is complaining about it. You've witnessed that escalation right on this forum.

Is there anywhere else along the red road that we can have a market? No, as a matter of fact, there isn't. So sad. So one sprouts up.

You may not have noticed, but lower Puna is kind of poor. We need this market. Sellers need the income. Why not get Village Center status? So, the worst case scenario you're painting is that commerce will develop! And people will make money! We need the money. Your worst case is a good thing for lot owners in Seaview.

The only bad thing I see is that lot owners with illusions of retiring on California-style cul-de-sacs will have those illusions destroyed. But this is the neighborhood with the House Of Cards. The illusion of Levittown is destroyed the moment you drive up the main drag.

What's your suggestion to resurrect the Farmer's Market?

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About public performances: I have no answer. The conflict there is plain: the owner you were talking about, the one who built after SPACE, the one who got heckled, was one of the African Drummers! His performance art is okay, everyone else's sucks.

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by terry.way...
What's your suggestion to resurrect the Farmer's Market?

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I just heard it will reappear at the Kalapana Village Cafe's parking lot? Rumor?

[mdd7000]

The Kalapana Village Cafe parking lot doesn't exactly have the "space" for a farmer's market. Imagine the traffic issues on that little cul-de-sac when you combine in the tourist traffic.

[peregrine]

The SPACE Farmers Market was mismanaged. This is not only my personal opinion, but the opinion of several vendors who signed a petition asking for more involvement and at least one SPACE board member. There were no rules of any sort except that Belly Acres residents did not have to pay to be there, but everybody else, from anywhere else, had to pay full price. The Manager refused to have the same kind of regulations determining who brings what that most market across Hawaii and the country do. Mr.Way loves to talk about how this area and is poor and needs the Market, but one of the poorest members was repeatedly told that it did not matter to SPACE Market Management if she went home with no profit, the only cause of which was "free market" principals and lack of regulation. That is to say, for example, if one expects to make $50 selling orange juice, because every week for the past three months they have made $50 selling orange juice, then one day, a new vendor comes in selling orange juice even though there is no more demand for it than $50 dollars worth, what will happen? The second person will be happy that they made $25, the first person will be wondering how they are going to fill there gas tank. This is an oversimplification, but truthful in what it illustrates. Is that the way the Village Center will be run? Are people from other parts of Puna going to come Seaview to make money while neighbors of SPACE struggle because they went home with half the earnings expected? That is what was happening at their Market. If you think that someone raising these concerns, when they have seen it with their own eyes, is a crank, then there must be more fiscal conservatives disguised as social liberals here than I thought. Sustainability means everyone gets their needs met, in a way that will perpetuate itself. It not just a buzz word for the ruling class to toss out like bread.

[Greg]

Basic laws of economics disprove your statement. If vendors find the SPACE farmers market unprofitable, they will stop coming. If vendors stop coming (and stop paying), SPACE is not going to continue.

This is secondhand, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard from a very reliable source that a vendor was not allowed to participate because they were using their EBT card to get supplies for the products they were selling. Is this true?


No slander, no offense, just a serious query.

Stoneface

[mdd7000]

Greg, I wouldn't doubt that vendors were buying products via EBT in any farmer's market.
I wonder why prepared food products whether it be pastries, hot dogs, burgers, etc. are even allowed in a "farmer's market"? Shouldn't the product be fruits, vegetables, etc. and not something that was made in someone's kitchen? Who knows how clean and sanitary that person's home kitchen is?

If products like that are allowed to be sold, where is the health department and why don't they do surprise inspections and post the results (scores) like many other communities do across the US? Having surprise inspections and posted scores keeps the vendors on their toes and protects the public. What vendor would want a failing score and the results posted on a website for all to see?

[csgray]

Peregrine,
I sold at markets all over the country for over 25 years and none of them provided a right of monopoly for individual vendors. To expect a small farmers market to control who sells what is just plain unreasonable, vendors bring their goods and either sell enough for it to be worthwhile, or they don't and they change what they bring. I used to go home with pockets full of cash most days, and then sometimes some one else would show up with a cheaper version of the same product and I wouldn't make anything. That is the risk you take when you choose to be part of a free market system. If someone wants a guaranteed paycheck they should get a regular job instead of expecting a market manager to protect them from competition.

Carol