Right of Owner Builder Plumbing/Electrical

[SpectreWriter]

Others may have pointed it out already, but: If I do my own electrical, it's no more or less dangerous than if some "professional" does it. The inspector is still supposedly going to do his job, make sure it meets Code. There is no Safety Issue, in this regard, because there is an inspector.

E mālama i ke kai i ola kākou

Malama pono!

JT
http://SpectreWriter.com

[kjlpahoa]

Yes we have inspectors. But, at least in this County, the inspectors are trained to take no responsibility or liability. That is why they require Architects and/or Engineers to stamp everything and why electrical and plumbing have to be done by a lic. contractor. They think that covers their u-know-what. "Pass the buck and be happy" is their motto. What needs changing is the whole Building Dept. from the top down.

[critterlover]

@KJLpahoa, " What needs changing is the whole Building Dept. from the top down."

Having been in a position to interact with the folks in the Building Division for the past few years, I think I can say, they themselves would agree with your statement. For the most part, they are good hearted and well intentioned. Most have an outstanding work ethic and many an established sense of 'customer service'. I have laughed and enjoyed my business with them. The few exceptions, I believe, is where the issues arise. They have had/or in one case still have, some staff who have no skills...excepting in being officious. The reality is, some believe they have more authority than they actually have and until you call them on it you are subject to it. Fortunately,it was not my job to call them on it. I could just go back to my partners and tell them what had happened and they'd go change my reality for me. Left me in the position of having fun while I was there. What I found was if I had fun and they had fun I learned a lot of stuff. I had wonderful assistance from them. Honestly. I figure, because I witnessed it first hand, the folks who work there and who want to be helpful are often mistreated by the public, so they get into 'do what I have to do' mindset. The public may be ticked because some inspector, or someone who reviews plans, or some other individual with power of approval, has forbade them something without explaining why. I personally know of one case where one of the staff required something before a commercial plan could be permitted that was not clearly articulated in code, the architect had already signed off on and the plan reviewer provided no assistance whatsoever in sourcing what they believed they derived their authority from. As it turned out, my husband was able to 'google' the problem, found a book online that addressed it, ordered it for the client, the client took the portion of the book into building div and was told by the individual they knew exactly where to get the info but it was not their place to tell our client. Weeks had already gone by, more money spent, and the kicker was, the way the client had it drawn on his plans was actually superior preference to the alleged 'preference' of the plan reviewer but because it was not clearly called out 'why' on the plans, the permit was held up. That kind of abuse leading to frustration is what winds up giving the whole division a bad name. There are a couple of folks who are like that there but more than that there are really great people who want to work with the public to build the most affordable home/business they can. They even look the other way if they can if insisting on something is going to be an unnecessary cost but in no way affects the safety of the structure.

I think what needs to happen is what has happened and is happening all over the nation; they need to become simplified and automated so you can bring in your plans and in a matter of days [some places hours] you have your permit. What happens elsewhere is the peculiarities of individuals do not come into play in those places. You bring your plans in conforming to their requirements; you pay your fees, you get your permit. The trade off here, and this is positive, is: you can actually go in and talk story with the plan reviewers, inspectors and supervisors and perhaps reach a compromise; or, you can work through the County at a different level to fix the persistent problems.

“A penny saved is a government oversight.”

[mwalker]

quote:

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Originally posted by DanielP

John,

Safety issue be damned. Individual liberty is being denied for the protection of trade by the licensed contractors. It is B.S.

I was held hostage by a plumbing contractor who attempted to extort $ from me for services that I had already paid for.

I should have the right to build my own house, wire it, plumb it and if the building inspector finds errors then I can fix 'em. It's a racket.

I am with you, Wao.

Burns me no end. Dan

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I am w/ you guys look at it like this "to a hammer everything is a nail"----> "to a regulator everything is a..." You will never, ever get the politicos to grasp the violations of rights even if they are lawyers, I know of BAR certified lawyers in CA that never even read the Constitution in Constitutional Law Class. I think changes could be made but it will take critical mass and a lot of pressure.

[Rob Tucker]

What it will take is a funded civil rights class action lawsuit. Are there enough people who feel strongly enough about this to donate $100 each? Not to date.

[mwalker]

I wouldn't be so sure about that, one approach would be to get a case into a local court. Find a OB that wants to do a little elctric and plumbing then sue the County for discrimination I forget which ammendment I really don't study this stuff but it would have to do with "equal protection". All people must be treated the same by the law, so if indeed there are SCOTUS decisions supporting OB without license then it should work. But as you realize local regulators violate peoples rights all the time, mostly because people don't realize their rights and regulators really do think they are above the law and local legal staff just make something up and pull something out of thin air. Things like this need to be addressed or you will need a permit to paint your bedroom!
Really the main reason they keep dreaming this stuff up is because they need revenue and more fees. Honestly they just make shi* up for the fees and in Hawaii to cover their a**. Realistically there is no difference between a lic worker and an OB IF it passes inspection!

[Rob Tucker]

I'm certainly not arguing with you. I simply believe that the ordinances need to be challenged in court. No challenge, no change. Griping about it won't change a thing.

[mwalker]

I have heard really good things about this Law course for the average per

http://www.jurisdictionary.com/ this lawyer is Freedom / Libertarian oriented and created this course so people can fight the system I have heard him speak very very good.

[Sean]

My two cents worth of why building codes/inspection are needed and not needed. I don't feel that I need a permit and inspection to replace a ceiling fan. It's not hard to go down to the store buy the right box (for strength) and replace the existing 40 year old box not designed for ceiling fans.

Of course, the previous house I bought had a ceiling fan in the vaulted dining room. There was absolutely nothing safe with it's installation. The very large and heavy ceiling fan was held in place with two little itty bitty 1 1/2 inch long screws. To operate the fan you had to pull the cords for lighting or breeze and I was thinking how nice it was to put pressure on those little screws. After following the wiring it turned out that an extension cord was run along the rafters through the wall and plugged into an overloaded outlet in the garage. A remodel took care of these problems, but shouldn't it have been done right to begin with -or at least close to right?

So, easy to do it right, but the people before me didn't bother and this was only the beginning of the "uniqueness" that I found on that house.

Cheers,

Sean

[nanasohana]

I have seen some bad mistakes made by licensed electrictions, also.