Increasing Burglaries in HPP

[csgray]

Pog,
In some states having a beware of dog sign is considered a prior admission of guilt if your dog bites someone, no matter what the reason. If you have a sign the courts believe you knew you had a biting dog, even if they had never bitten anyone.

To clarify, our dogs clearly signal to strangers that they are unwelcome on our property, anyone who ignores them and enters our property without a family member with them is either an old friend known to them, or an intruder (and probably stupid). Anyone with legitimate business would know enough to wait until someone came to the gate to let them in. I have spent virtually all of my life living in rural areas all over the country, and accepted practice in all of those places was that you do not come through anyone's closed gate unannounced or without prior permission. In several of those states you were far more likely to be greeted by a gun toting (or shooting) homeowner than an aggressive dog.

I honestly do not know if my dogs would bite an intruder, no one has been foolish enough to come charging through our gate unattended. They accept people we accept, although our rescue dog thinks she is in charge of keeping me and our property secure and safe whenever my husband isn't around, and due to prior abuse she has pretty negative attitudes about any men who remind her of her prior owner who starved and beat her.

Obie,
How are any dogs supposed to know when there is a threat and when there isn't if someone enters their territory without permission from their owner? No dog is that smart, to dogs a person who comes onto their property through a closed gate without the owner being there is an intruder, and a potential threat. That doesn't mean they are vicious, it means they are doing their job of keeping intruders on the far side of the gate until we say it is OK. Once we greet the people they are all wags and kisses, until then they are all bark, growl, and fence biting.

In a place where home invasions are fairly common, where people are regularly broken into, and where the police could take hours to respond (if ever) many dog owners have dogs for the sole purpose of keeping strangers out to keep their property safe. Are the dogs supposed to have some sort of magic psychic powers that tell them which persons are OK, and which are intruders when their people aren't home?

Carol

edited to fix a typo

[dmbwest]

Thank you Carol ... learned some good stuff.

aloha,
pog

[AlohaSteven]

Steven, I hope you respect barking dogs behind closed gates, even if there is no sign up.....The NW is great in HPP, not intrusive but helpful.

Thanks, Carol, for the info regarding the "honk twice and wait" gate protocol and comment on HPP's NW program. I am on foot or riding a bike when I go around so just call out "Hello, this is your neighbor Steven from down the street, here about Neighborhood Watch." I never open a closed gate whether there are dogs present evident behind it or not -and also never open a closed gate whether it is posted or not.

Regarding pog's comment ...I think I have seen you guys walking on "patrol" and think this part is pretty *explicative* useless. Like a bunch of Barney Fifes with plastic badges. Sorry bra, NOT an attack or put down so no need to respond as offended .. This is MY OPINION. Might make the old folks feel better but the REAL deal is being there when it goes down and having the balls to confront and stop things -this is an interesting observation worth considering in several ways.

If the HPP NW program has zero impact (is "useless" as regards preventing crime) then the incidence of crime in HPP relative to the rest of Puna would be unchanged over time and the incidence rate of crime within NW areas inside HPP relative to HPP areas without NW would be equal. Looking at statistics and incident maps, this does not seem to be indicated. Nationally and locally, there is less crime when NW is present in an area than when NW is not active in an area -so the evidence supports NW making some positive impact on prevention.

Prevention is just one aspect though. Recovery of stolen property is much more likely when items are marked as per NW guidelines (and using tools NW makes available), when there is systematic reporting, and cooperative effort with police ...which also gains more police attention in general for the areas with NW.

Regarding the characterization of NW members as Barney Fifes with plastic badges, LOL, no offense taken on my part -though I do prefer to think of myself as a member of the "Apple Dumpling Gang." It is not the raw brawn and testosterone-fueled ferocity of NW members "on patrol" (which simply means wearing a yellow NW tee-shirt while walking, biking, or cruising around the neighborhood) which deters thieves looking for easy targets of opportunity. Many thieves of the sort which burglarize homes in HPP are intimidated by visible signs of an active neighborhood watch in effect, no matter that it is probably an old geezer with a cel phone writing down license plate numbers, noting a checklist of details as per the NW reporting protocol, and calling the cops.

Plus which --for the Barney Fifes themselves as well as for some of those with whom they interact-- participating in NW can add to the cohesiveness in a neighborhood, building a richer fabric of connections in a community.


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Jaan Pehechaan Ho by Mohammed Rafi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgeuUAzThto

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[dmbwest]

NICE Steven ... THAT and the classic video and you are growing on me ... Good sense of humor.

Did NOT mean to down talk you guys ... Just that anyone real criminal knows how to avoid the obvious NW stuff ... I would be interested to know if the statistics or reduction of crime once NW is in place is merely a local on local / neighbor on neighbor anomally reduction or a real difference ... Already know the proponents of this will contradict me here. Just sayin'.

If you really want to spook the guys crusin' without getting hurt you gotta be out there looking AT them when they go by.
Tell your neighborhood folks to run out and check. Believe me, these guys will see/notice them ... Even having your folks pretend ( exactly that ... look and fake like writing a plate down ... exaggerations of motion o.k. here ) to write a plate down will have these guys checking off your street as in liu of another.

aloha,
pog

[Greg]

Which do you think a thief finds more attractive; A street with numerous eyes watching out for each other, or the fenced, locked house with no one home and no one paying attention?

I've heard people here express the attitude that; "If any one comes in my yard they'll meet Mr Smith and Mr Wesson". I imagine people like that suffer from a high degree of stress when away, and we all know that stress is a killer.

I prefer the comforting notion that my neighbors are watching out for me when I'm in town.

Don't have a good network of friends around? Start a neighborhood watch.

[PaulW]

"In a place where home invasions are fairly common"

Are you sure about that?

[csgray]

I base this on the number of students I have had who have talked about experiencing a home invasion and the absolute surprise of one of my students when I told him that not only had I never experienced a home invasion, but I didn't know anyone who had. He was dumbfounded that I had never been through this, and it was clear from the ensuing class discussion that not only is this a fairly common event, but that it also is often not reported to the police.

Carol

[Kapohocat]

Barney Fife? Puh! []

Pops and his "over the hill" gang at Akaka Falls, in Honomu town, and at Kole Kole reduced crime up there just by being there. They had their "Community Watch" Tshirts on, and walkie talkies (yes they all had cell phones but being barney fifes they liked the W/T's too). They would hang out and chit chat and help tourists who locked keys in cars by letting them use their cell phones to call rental agencies, etc.

Over all just having someone around even if 75 and older, deterred car break-ins. I also gave Pops a digital camera and when there was someone suspicious - he just took a pic of plate, and even better if he got pic of person, easier than writing it down, and trying to remember what they looked like. Those old guys were just so cute!!

So yes I do think NW/CW works, in this case the more niele the better.

[PaulW]

Why would a home invasion not be reported to the police?

[Greg]

In the past, A home invasion wouldn't be reported if marijuana was involved. It's a shame when violent thugs feel protected by the law. I think more incidents are being reported today because more and more people are in possession legally.