Ocean Front Property

[KeaauRich]

If I had a nickle for every person I'd seen in Puna doing something not commendable for bodily health...

[JerryCarr]

Deborah, Old Government Road, despite some dispute, has generally been recognized as a public byway since the days of the Kingdom. It is blocked to vehicular traffic, but foot traffic is allowed through the Shipman lands to Haena. As for the side trails leading to the shoreline, I would guess they are NOT public byways, but I have seen them used plenty of times.

There was something of a hu-hu a couple of years ago when Shipman tried to curtail some access through their land to the shore in the parts nearest HPP. There was a real problem with people having parties in that area that left a lot of trash and were so loud that the HPP residents nearby were complaining. Shipman responded by putting some big rocks in place to block ATV and four-wheel drive access at the end of Old Gov't, which had been possible previously. Unfortunately, the rocks were on HPP land and had to be quickly relocated onto the Shipman side of the line. Also, a lot of people expressed anger at Shipman for trying to limit all such access instead of just cracking down on the partiers. Frankly, IMHO, Shipman was well within their legal rights. (Other than putting rocks on somebody else's land, of course.) The traditional byway remained open to foot traffic before, during, and after the hu-hu episode, which partly played out at a public HPP meeting I attended.

[John S. Rabi]

quote:

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Originally posted by Youser
Back to the original question: can one walk along the ocean front, or fish? Yes you can, anywhere in Hawaii...In Hawaii owners of ocean front property can only build to 30' or 40' to the ocean...

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It seems there is a misunderstanding in this issue. Yes, you can walk along the ocean front (and fish if you wish) as long as you are below the high water mark. The law does not diferenciate ocean front with sandy, rocky or cliff areas. With the latter the high water mark is somewhere on the side of the cliff, therefore, you will be trespassing walking on the property unless there is a public access easement there.

In regards to building "30' or 40' to the ocean" it has nothing to do with access or high water mark. It's called setback and it applies to every property whether ocean front or not.



Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,PB,ABR,CRB,CM,FHS
888.819.9669
johnrabi@johnrabi.com
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
(This is what I think of the Kona Board of Realtors http://KonaBoardOfRealtors.info)

[macuu222]

Ok..Now I'm confused again. So since the whole east side of the island is cliffs...and the HIGH watermark is below the cliff...then it's illegal for anyone to walk or fish along the edge unless a)there is a public access easment b) your the owner of the property or c) you ask permission from whoever owns it if you can stand there.

What about ancient ancestral hawaiian fishing locations along the coast that don't have public access easments.I know one off hand on the HPP coast thats on private property. Does that mean they can't fish there also?

It seems too complicated...

[John S. Rabi]

quote:

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Originally posted by macuu222
1Ok..Now I'm confused again. So since the whole east side of the island is cliffs...and the HIGH watermark is below the cliff...then it's illegal for anyone to walk or fish along the edge unless a)there is a public access easment b) your the owner of the property or c) you ask permission from whoever owns it if you can stand there.

2What about ancient ancestral hawaiian fishing locations along the coast that don't have public access easments.I know one off hand on the HPP coast thats on private property. Does that mean they can't fish there also?

3It seems too complicated...

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1 Correct.
2 The PASH would be applicable.
3 It's actually very simple, except maybe #2.

Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,PB,ABR,CRB,CM,FHS
888.819.9669
johnrabi@johnrabi.com
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
(This is what I think of the Kona Board of Realtors http://KonaBoardOfRealtors.info)

[oink]

There you go, spreading that signature around again John.





(Thats intended as humorous satire folks)
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[oink]

Good grief! He just provided valuable knowledge which is reflected in his signature. I have a problem with some of his signature but not that he has one reflecting his business. His signature is longer than others but it doesn't seem overly long.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Rob Tucker]

Orchidlandguy,

I am okay with John or you determining your own signature lines. There may come a day when that will be re-examined on PW but I would respond that no, it is not absolutely necessary. If it was we might require everyone to post large signature lines. Not doing that either.

Some sites allow photographs and avatars. We do not. So if a member wants to present themself in some expanded manner I see no reason to object.

(John: Leave it be please)

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by macuu222

It seems too complicated...

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It's complicated because Hawaii State and County laws address this issue. The laws are on the books to create all necessary beach access, shoreline transit corridors, inland access, etc. But in the hype of writing the public access laws, they messed up and wrote in a provision that is a disaster. So they took their hands off the door handle and put a Do Not Enter” sign on it. The citizens of Hawaii County pass that door all the time, see the name "Public Access Law" on it, but can't understand why it's under lock and key. The private developers, investors, and major land owners know what’s behind it, and they use it to their advantage to get what they want by threatening to expose what's behind the door.

[Rob Tucker]

I think that legally there is a big difference between cliff acces and ocean access. My assumption would be there there is no legal right of access to the top of any ocean facing cllff.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator