Military buldup and invasive species

[mdd7000]

If you had any real association with Puna, you would know exactly who Syd Singer is and what he advocates, which is entirely the polar opposite of your stance. (It's a joke son, a joke...) []

[Orchidlandguy]

quote:

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Originally posted by mdd7000

If you had any real association with Puna, you would know exactly who Syd Singer is and what he advocates, which is entirely the polar opposite of your stance. (It's a joke son, a joke...) []

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so let's get all your buddies that are not in puna and go after them also.
You hate hypocrites right?

Who cares if this guy lives where? only you.
You only moved here a scant few years ago. I've lived here way longer than you... na, naa na, na.... little school yard boy. mine is bigger than yours?

[Kapohocat]

Okay I'll bite.

As we drove to Kona the other day over Saddle Rd, my Sierra Club friend was dismayed to see so many of one specific plant along the side of the new highway (they were tall and skinny kinda, whitish green).

She told me they came over it is believed on the equipment sent from mainland to do the work on Saddle Rd. It typically grows in the high deserts areas on the mainland but is becoming quite invasive here. She explained to me that every person who comes from off island has the potential to bring an invasive seed or microorganism on their shoes particularly, not just the military. Her take was the military is less circumspect when moving big equipment from off island to Pohakuloa about checking everything where a tourist just has shoes to brush off. The increase is just a quantity issue - the more than moves, the more chance of something harmful coming in.

But Bullwinkle, I cant answer your question either on who specifically sets the agenda! As bunnies can be just as invasive or more so than feral cats, or we would not have any jokes about bunnies reproductive behavior. []

[MarkP]

Dugger:

In my opinion mdd7000 has paid you a compliment by placing you at the opposite end of the spectrum from Syd Singer. At the same time there is some truth to his implication that you should know who Syd Singer is if you care so much about the threat of invasive species in Puna.

Of course humans are invasive and are pests. Lets get right to the meat of the matter. Lots of us should go. While we're at it there are a few racial and ethnic groups that I don't like so let's kill two birds with one stone. Sooo, for starters I didn't mean "us" so much as "them" so that rules me out. Well, I can see this could get a little complicated. Some irresponsible people will insist on being uncooperative and selfish.

So yes people are invasive but there is absolutely nowhere to go with this argument. Not picking on you dugger I don't think you were one of the many on these and other web pages who trot out the "humans are the problem" song and dance. It just makes me so sick to hear such a useless statement since it only inflames controversy and yet is completely off the table unless we are willing to contemplate some kind of "final solution" for others or suicide for ourselves. It is an issue we have to work with through education. Personally I would include family planning as part of education.

My own views:

1. I don't think any one species is all that innately special and worthy, but it says something about the quality of the system as a whole when individual species either decline or proliferate unnaturally and to the harm of other species native to that ecosystem.

2. I think it is too easy to say the floodgates have always been open. The real situation is more gray. There are species in Hawaii that are unique and are truly native, having changed over the eons till they exist here and nowhere else. At the same time the wave of extinctions started with the arrival of the ancient hawaiians. They brought rats and pigs which started the process. Their cultivation of taro brought them in close contact with some species of waterfowl that were driven to extinction in native times. Out of necessity they developed a great understanding for their environment the likes of which is probably unknown in the world today except for maybe for some relatively undiscovered tribes in what's left of the Amazon, but like anything humans do it was somewhat self serving, and it didn't stop them from driving some species to extinction (80,000 birds for a feather cloak?).

3. Interesting question and I don't know the answer to this myself but would you kill the last cockroach? The last rat? The last fire ant or brown tree snake? Sure, an apapane is prettier but is it really better? Yes it is rare but if you got down to the last rat rats would be rare too.

4. I guess it is obvious from my previous posts that I don't think native hawaiians are any different than any other flavor of human and since I know how sleazy white people can be (I'm one) I now know how sleazy ancient hawaiians probably were. I would have to be racist and proud of it to suggest otherwise.

5. All that being said, I think it is true that the culture of the military, being composed largely of young people with no investment in the locations they are posted to, often sent to places they don't like and often treated with hostility when they get there, makes it more likely that as a group they may not work hard to live up to standards of the community that they feel don't benefit them.

[silverpenny10]

Dugger:"I'm firmly on the side of trying my best to protect the way of life we have here now."
I agree with you and go a bit further to say that I'd prefer to turn back the clock some if possible, perhaps 30 or so years ago when Kona wasn't a 6 lane road.

MarkP:"many on these and other web pages who trot out the "humans are the problem" song and dance"
I don't think it was meant that humans are the problem, but rather the ignorant and destructive 'actions' by humans. The more we know, the less ignorant we are.

[Orchidlandguy]

to use the mdd7000 logic:
what do ya say, MarkP and mdd7000 are both the same poster? maybe they are sock puppets? If I was mdd7000 I would from now on continue to post that MarkP and mdd7000 are the same person.

[peteadams]

This has been posted before, but as far as invasive plants go these are two of the basic web sites to know about:

http://www.state.hi.us/dlnr/dofaw/hortweeds/
http://www.hear.org/

White Cloud Nursery
www.whitecloudnursery.com

[dugger]

Good God, Mark. Of course I know who Syd Singer is. I really didn't understand why you would want us to meet in a dark alley. I really though yo were implying something altogether different.

[dugger]

As far a native species, I think the answer is really quite simple. It's those species of plants and animals that were here before the onslaught of humans. Most of these species are unique to Hawaii and therefore up to those who have stewardship of the land to protect.
How can anyone vote in favor of letting in rabies or snakes?

[kalama boy]

Hey Dugger, can we vote out tiger sharks and portagee man o war, they can cause so much pain?