building with shipping containers

[Davesinhilo]

Hi David Holbrook here
I have just finished building a container home for some folks and, as a builder I am on the fence wheather or not building this way is more economical in the long term. It has to be done right and rust proofing is a big part of that. It really depends on how "nice" of a house you are looking for. Shops, storage, and maybe guest houses would be probably a resonable use for a container if the container is cheap enough. Just about everything has to be permited here on the Big Island. Later David

[OpenD]

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Originally posted by Davesinhilo

I have just finished building a container home for some folks and, as a builder I am on the fence wheather or not building this way is more economical in the long term.

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Who says it has to be more economical to justify its use? It's simply another building option, which has advantages and disadvantages, like every other construction method. I've seen a cantilevered 4 unit, two story house that was assembled in 3 days and fully livable in a couple of weeks. The "Surf Shack" others have referred to opens out to be a light and airy weekend getaway for the guy who built it, yet it buttons up tight as a bank vault when the end doors are closed and locked. And there were a number of container houses featured in the Dwelling Show at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC a couple of years that inspired a whole NEW way of thinking about container reuse... after 20 years of a successful first wave of such thinking. This is NOT a new concept.

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It has to be done right and rust proofing is a big part of that.

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The recent adoption of Corten steel for better containers greatly reduces that issue. Consider, every major city in the US now has skyscrapers built of bare Corten steel that require no paint or other maintenance. They turn a lovely chocolate brown and then stop rusting. Termites have no clue what to do with them. []

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It really depends on how "nice" of a house you are looking for.

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Million dollar houses have been built using containers, and there have been a number of high end architectural books written on the subject. You can have as nice a house as you want. Seriously. It's just not a big part of most people's thinking because it's still not all that common. Kinda like ferro-cement thin-shell dome homes. In the right circumstances, it can be the perfect solution. Doesn't mean it's right for every situation. It's simply another approach.

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Shops, storage, and maybe guest houses would be probably a resonable use for a container if the container is cheap enough.

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That's pretty limited thinking. Consider, both the County and the State are building offices out of containers, among other things because they are inherently more earthquake and storm resistant than frame construction. And they can be moved in, or moved out relatively quickly. Just to name a use that is on the rise.

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Just about everything has to be permited here on the Big Island.

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Not everything. Temporary buildings, no. Unattached decks, no. Etc. And of course, not everyone chooses to go through the permit process. The County estimates there are more than 1,000 residences in Puna District that were built without benefit of permit. Not saying it's right, just saying it's so.

But in any case, yes, container buildings of every kind can be built under permit. It just takes a different way of designing and engineering and building. One configuration I find very promising uses two containers, placed parallel to each other, but some distance apart... maybe 12-16'... then deck and roof over the space between, using the strength of the 4x4 box beam frames to carry the load, and enclosing the ends. This yields a big Great Room in the center, surrounded by smaller rooms, a very practical arrangement for family dwelling. This is how the high-end house in San Diego was built that was featured in Dwell magazine a year ago.

Here's another legitimate use... drop a container on site to serve as construction office and material/tool storage while the residence is being built. Incorporate the container into the finished structure, say for utility room and storage (In San Diego they turned it into the Kitchen). OR, keep it separate for use as an ohana, or an office, or studio, even a storm shelter. It's a big, strong box. There are lots of things one can use a big, strong box for. []

[MarkP]

The concept of building with shipping containers is heavily sold based on the containers being cheap. We have already discussed whether they actually are cheap but what matters is that they are presented as being cheap and ready to slap together. While I am sure that anything can be done with them, the average person who gets the idea off the net expects to capitalize on their inherent structure without a lot of modifications. I think David's opinion is quite valid. Also, maybe the newer units are built out of stuff that doesn't rust but out here next to the volcano you see an awful lot of rusty containers. I think that any sound design must put a roof over the containers with a generous overhang or siding, which means you have built half a house right there. Cor-ten steel also didn't work as advertised in the Aloha Stadium.

Yes you can build anything you want but I think Dave and I are saying that you will pay for it. If you don't want to pay, you must get used to living in a skinny metal box. By the way, Dave and I are neighbors. Our mutual neighbor down on the corner has a small container for storage. They had to get a set of wheels to put under it before they could pass their final inspection so that is part of the logistics for using it as a temporary structure.

I do like the idea of the two parallel containers with a deck in between.

[tada]

My idea is a carport between 2 parallel boxes. got the idea from a pc that I sent to Cat- I hope she still has it for "future reference." But still don't a property to put it on yet.[!]

[OpenD]

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Originally posted by MarkP

The concept of building with shipping containers is heavily sold based on the containers being cheap.

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Maybe some did at one time, but we've moved into Wave II now, a good 20 years or more after the pioneering efforts. People are using them now for other reasons.

The guy at Affordable Portable Housing used to have a lot of good info on his website that seems to be gone now, as his focus shifts to manufactured steel buildings. But he used to have info about the finished cost of buildings using containers, and he concluded that hoping to save money using containers as building modules was not realistic, because they tend to compare with kit-built houses when the final numbers are crunched.

But, you can do things with containers you simply cannot do cost effectively with conventional construction techniques, like cantilevering out over ravines, bridging deep crevices, and as I mentioned before, getting a sold, secure structure on-site in 24 hours. One of the things I'm working on for disaster relief is fitting containers out as minimalist but fully self sufficient shelters at a central facility, then trucking them where needed and rolling them off at the site ready to go.

I do have a neighbor who recently constructed a freestanding roof, including rainwater catchment, using conventional corrugated roofing over purlins, then slid a container in under it to sit on 4 concrete corner pads. Very slick, and it worked perfectly.

[MarkP]

As previously stated I continue to bounce around ideas as to how best to get the proper mix of shelter and storage out of my 40" hi cube. A theme I keep coming back to is to put up a large greenhouse, large enough to put the container under and still have room left over for plants. It is not glamorous at all but fits perfectly at the cheap end of the spectrum. Under this scenario I would wall off the end of the container with the big doors so you didn't smell the gas from the mowers. I would put in ventilation too. That part would be like an attached garage. The other end of the container would be outfitted for minimal living with windows and a door and whatever plumbing and electric was necessary. Modifications to the container would be whatever was necessary for ventilation and light but not enough to compromise strength so the container would still be self contained.

The key to it all would be the greenhouse. Instead of rainy Puna where it is doomed to rust, the container would now think it was in the desert, where it would last pretty nearly indefinitely. Treatment to the container roof would be limited to a good cleaning and coat of paint. If I really got carried away i would try putting plants on top of the container, that is if I could find a way to keep the container from getting wet.

[OpenD]

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Originally posted by MarkP

A theme I keep coming back to is to put up a large greenhouse, large enough to put the container under and still have room left over for plants. It is not glamorous at all but fits perfectly at the cheap end of the spectrum.

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Whether you put a shed roof, a gable roof, or a barrel vault shaped roof over your container, it's all just variation on a theme, but it's a good theme. Keeping rain off the container alleviates many of the concerns, and also allows for rainwater collection. And keeping direct sun off the roof and south side during summer months makes daytime temperatures much more manageable. Another passive strategy that could help is shading the south wall with growing vegetation (set away from the wall, not touching it) that dies back in winter months, allowing some free solar gain during cooler weather. Pole beans might be good.

Framing in a sliding patio door at the end is a no-brainer, and with a double ended container using glass and screen sliders at both ends provides a tremendous amount of light and ventilation without having to make a single cut in the sides. And what I like is leaving the big container doors on, but folding them back out of the way, using the sliders just inside for everyday, then being able to lock everything up tight using the container doors when I need to be away for extended periods.

[MarkP]

I agree with all that OpenD but in my case I need to keep one end for storage of large dirty items. I also like the idea of a sleeping nook at the closed end, so I envision entry through a standard door in the side, plus a few small windows in the sides, all reinforced as necessary so that the container is not unduly weakened. This departs somewhat from the KISS principle you so elegantly espouse and which I truly admire. I had thought along those lines myself. I just have to keep the big doors for the lawnmowers and similar junk and entry through the side makes laying out a living space lots easier.

[www.containerhome.info]

Firstly I wanted to introduce myself, I am perhaps the biggest fan of Shipping Container Construction in the World.

I am also a general contractor with several years of working in ISBU based construction and today I teach people to build with ISBU's so I have NOTHING against using shipping containers for fast, affordable construction.

I wanted to comment on a couple of things in this thread.

1, How great it is to see the growth of “intelligent debate” emerging in this area on forums like this.

10 years ago the discussion and sharing of information about container homes was nothing short of naive and over enthusiastic but as people have started to actually build using this method the lessons learn't are being shared on platforms like this which is causing the truth - the good, the bad and the ugly about container homes to get out there – at last !

2, That said there is still a LOT of misleading and bad information about container based construction in "circulation"

By way of example, in this particular thread there where several points raised that are incorrect - I picked the most mentioned that of corten steel and corrosion as my example.

Corten steel – just like containers - has been engineered to perform a prescriptive task, that doesn’t mean it is corrosion resistant it means that "under certain circumstances and conditions is that its corrosion resistant"

Few people know that the corrosion guarantee on new containers is 3 years – excluding areas damaged by impact or abrasion damage.

3 years is not very long for a product that “doesn’t rust”

I have made a free 20 minute video explaining this - actually the video is about the reasons that you should not bury a shipping container but one of them is corrosion so it address the question in detail.

The video is here.

http://www.containerhome.info/tutorial-9.html

I appreciate that this is my first posting on the board and so I ask for the forums indulgence in placing an outbound link as a newbie however the content created is hyper focused and I feel adds great value to this thread.

Thank you for your consideration.

Victor



Regards

Victor

[csgray]

After walking around in an empty moving van before a friend packed it, I came to the conclusion that it was the perfect "container" for a portable home. It has locking doors already set up in the sides as well as the ends, outside locking storage and has variable heights inside, including some areas that are taller than a container. Easy to secure when gone and easy to move if needed. Unfortunately they are rare in Hawaii.

Carol