Tom, that was such a moving post. Thank you for sharing and my empathy to you in your difficult situation, with best wishes.
I am very much pro-astronomy. I would like to see the Native Hawaiian point of view accommodated too, if there is a middle ground. There could be more respect for the mountain, for example the traffic up the summit road could stand to be more regulated.
When visitors go to Puuhonua 'O Honaunau, they typically walk the grounds in reverence because they are told it is a sacred site, and the same could be done as part of a visit to Mauna Kea -- a little education on what is up there could be provided/mandatory, along with a fee to proceed past the VIS. Just a thought.
If Pele (or Gaia) doesn't like the observatories ... Mauna Kea is not extinct, and self-remedy is available.
The debate on whether or not technology of all kinds is good for mankind isn't a local specific issue, so no comment on that.
"Sometimes it's not enough to know what things mean, sometimes you have to know what things don't mean." — Bob Dylan
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quote:
Originally posted by anthonyf
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
How is my life better with technology? I live longer, in more comfort, free from currently preventable diseases, not hungry, not thirsty, I can travel ... I'm sure you get the picture. These are all things I want so please don't tell me I only think they're better. If you want to live without technology, be my guest - the Amazon is waiting.
Never heard of the Hadzi, sorry.
OK. Be comfortable. You do not sound comfortable. All that fear that someone might take your technology away.
The fact that you would not even doa Google search of who the Hadzi are expresses that you would like to remain ignorant about things. That is one way to comfort yourelf. All this technology and yet people are still ignornat of their own biases.
Sorry, I just don't understand where you are coming from.
First, I never got an answer to what is wrong with individuality? You said you were reconsidering moving to Puna because there are so many folks into individuality here. I really have no idea what is wrong with being into individuality. I embrace it. I love all the uniqueness and individuality here.
Also really don't understand the argument you presented to Tom. He is thankful to have technology save his loved one's life and you challenge that? then Tom says his sight is ok and he is not blind because of technology and you accuse him of being down on blind people? I don't understand.
I can tell you that because of technology I am alive. I did a real dumb stunt and fell down a cliff breaking lots of bones. I just now am out of bed after months of healing. I absolutely would be dead if not for the technology that kept me breathing and alive in the first few days.
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Hadzi is a zoological classification of 6 phyla based on potential evolutionary characteristics that has largely been debunked......
Which has absolutely nothing to do with telescopes, but is related to how science & technology grow & change over time (so how is Hadzi keeping on topic AF?)
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what anthonyf meant by "individualistic", is divisiveness, separatism. We live in a society where me and mine supercedes the good of the whole. We're taught to "win" at any cost. We tend to have tunnel vision and are unable to see the broad picture. We think we are so much more intelligent with our gizmos that we can out do nature. Really??? Technology is fine, but at what COST? Irradiate the masses with EMF's and destroy bird's migratory/homing system so we can have better cell phone reception and get broadcast from asia? No thanks, I'll stick with land lines. Spray and fumigate pesticides, herbicides, fungicides on tens of thousands of acres and allow it to drift and run into the oceans so we MIGHT have access to biofuel? No thanks, I'll reduce use, walk and bike, use public transportation, hitch hike. Drink water laden with toxic flouride? No thanks, we were lied to. Eat GMO frankenfoods that are bigger, shinier, prettier that are manipulated, processed in fancy boxes, cans, packages? No thanks, I'll grow and raise my own REAL food. Free from preventable diseases caused by choking on pollution from pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, chem trails, GMO's, flouride, vaccines, and the endless list of assaults? We can only hope and dream. Desecrate more pristine land to study the stars and planets so that when we poison and burn up this planet beyond repair, those with the $billions and $trillions made from selling pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, chem trails, GMO's, flouride, vaccines will have a place to go do it all over again. Of this I'm sure: it WON'T me or you.
Technology is great. The big question is: what is the price to pay? I'm not talking about money.
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Csgray, what troll are you referring to?
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Well, now the thread has moved onto chemtrails and a massive conspiracy involving the TMT to conquer other planets it's time to leave this thread before it becomes even more loony.
Just to answer KathyH, thank you, and there are already measures to come into effect that require visitors to Mauna Kea to be educated about the mountain by the Office of Mauna Kea Management ( OMKM). I don't agree with charging for access, I think that would be seen the wrong way and making access more difficult for local folk, but think I would favour a fee for the tour buses. The observatories already pay for the upkeep of the road and summit services including the excellent rangers. I don't think the tour companies do although I might be wrong.
Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
there are already measures to come into effect that require visitors to Mauna Kea to be educated about the mountain by the Office of Mauna Kea Management (OMKM). I don't agree with charging for access, I think that would be seen the wrong way and making access more difficult for local folk, but think I would favour a fee for the tour buses. The observatories already pay for the upkeep of the road and summit services including the excellent rangers. I don't think the tour companies do although I might be wrong.
How would the education come into play, Tom? Good to know.
The new trend in the state is to charge Non-Resident admission. That way it doesn't impact local access. I should have specified, but I was talking about tourism. It wouldn't have to be much. Akaka Falls is $5 now for non-residents.
I would like to see them control the people who are driving up in violation of their rental contracts. You know, that violation means their insurance is void. That means if there's a collision, that they're an uninsured driver ... putting all the burden of insurance on the local driver.
A lot of people plan to drive up there who really have no idea what it's about. Many think they are going up to look through a telescope at the summit. Many don't know anything about potential altitude sickness either.
Oh well ...
btw, it's possible to have a conversation on topic by ignoring what isn't ... one doesn't have to abandon ship.
Especially not you, you work up there!
"Sometimes it's not enough to know what things mean, sometimes you have to know what things don't mean." — Bob Dylan
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How many children did Captain Cook have? Six. Five died from disease, four in infancy and one in adolescence. Fletcher Christian was one of six surviving siblings out of 10.
John James Audubon was employed by a wealthy plantation owner, Lucy Pirrie. She had something like seven children. Five of them died, four in infancy.
These families were not the uneducated masses. It was simply that bad even for those who had the best resources.
Ah, the good old days when you didn't live under the deathly pall of fluoridated water......
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OK, one more quick response. Kathy, not sure what the status of the education thing is but will try and find out. I think it was more about educating people about Mauna Kea and its connection with the Hawaiians rather than making people drive safely. It's buried somewhere in the link I gave but not sure if they explained how it would be done.
I agree there is a problem with tourists driving rental sedans up there, not sure what can be done about it though. Collisions are rare although I have seen one or two in my time - they were between observatory vehicles though. Tourists and locals driving their cars off the road is a bigger problem, both sedans and 4WDs (plus the odd observatory vehicle). Just the other day another tourist driven SUV was towed off the summit road after an unplanned off-road excursion.
OK, enough for now, I'm thinking about Pam despite someone here suggesting I should just let her die. I'm also busy dealing with the final checks for our interstellar warp-drive engines designed for planetary colonization but we're still trying to figure out how to deliver chemtrails to an alien planet's surface from the vacuum of space. Mark just made me realise we forgot to load the flouride, so have to do some more balance and weight calculations.
Anyone have a suggestion for the first planet we should have a go at? I'm considering a shot at delivering some fungicides to Saturn.
Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/
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