Thinking of moving, growing practice ?'s for puna

[Greenreef]

So I'm planing on moving from the mainland to a new destination for a simpler, mostly sustainable, lifestyle. I have been looking at Hawaii for a few years as well as some other tropical locations. I have more or less narrowed it down to orchid land or Hawaiian acres(price, rain and community) for Hawaii and would go for the lowest elevation lot to maximize sun exposure(solar and plants) so now I'm looking at realistic ease of accomplishing my goals. To do so I need 2-3 acres of "farmable" land able to support real producing fruit trees, veggies and some root crops. I'm looking at a 10 year general plan.

So I know every lot is different but for generalization I assume it's 2-6" of soil on top of lava flows. From the site for orchid land estates I get that for real agriculture practices I need to rip the lot with a d9 and add cinder and mulch to produce a "top soil". Now is this what the local coffee groves have done or have they just bought good lots? I'm not too in favor of this bc it's essentially sterilizing your lot of native foliage and it doubles the cost of farmable land from purchase price. On top of that it doesn't exactly make great topsoil. I do plan on chopping down a fair amount of the vegetation, except select trees, and turning it into biochar so select ripping in stages is not out of the question.


On the flip side I hear that anything grows in puna, sounds great, and also lots of stories of 10 year old avocados and citrus not producing, not so good.

So my plan right now would be to rip the down hill side of a lot, front to back about 20-30 ft wide, add cinder and mulch, and then plant bamboo for erosion control and fruit trees. Stop by every 6mo to a year and tend it and slowly move uphill adding trees but no bamboo. The idea would be to essentially build organic topsoil from ripped lava, cinder and mulch while holding it in place from erosion with a bamboo fence and retaining nutrients with biochar.

So some questions

I get the idea that the lava provides micro nutrients, some potassium and phosphorus but no nitrogen. Anyone try growing sun hemp on straight ripped lava to add nitrogen? Any other legumes?

Do I even need to rip the land for it to be farmable, or if I planted a bamboo or citrus and walked away would it have something to root and spread? I would rather spot plant around trees.

Do I really need to add cinder after ripping or would sufficiently crushing the rock suffice(got some ideas behind that, time consuming I know)?

I've heard pros and cons to Hilo dump mulch any more are welcome, any problems with using it for non food ag purposes ie bamboo?

Anyone try growing bamboo on fresh ripped, or not ripped, land? Results?

I have a decent amount of growing experience but mostly in loam or clay soil which I understand is not like puna at all. I have done a fair amount of research but it shows up as all of hawaii usually and I know puna is different. Am I completely crazy for thinking this would work? Or is there a different moderately priced region with deeper soil I should look at. I am planning a scouting trip in a month or two but would like some questions answered before spend g a week and a few k looking at something I may not be interested in so any advice or input is appreciated, thanks!

[rbrgs]

There's a lot of soil around Mt View; there's a big cinderfall that's 10,000 years old and there's soil that's 6-8 feet deep. It's on Mauna Loa, though, not Kilauea, and in the rain belt.

[Carey]

Only you can tell how crazy, there are many farms in those 2 agricultural subdivisions, and there are a wide variety of plants, from pin ripped coffee farms to hydroponic vine crops, to shadecloth covered orchid & other floral lots (whole acres are covered).

There are many areas or both Orchidland & HA that do not even have 2" of soil...and the soil is very N limited...legumes are used (the much hated albizia tree is one of the most irritating experiments on that...) but a lot of care should be taken in choosing the N-fixers utilized, as some can really become a very negative invasive...

Planting anything & walking away has & could create a mess... many bamboos are highly invasive here, & citrus may root, but will not have good quality without care (both pests & nutrient deficiencies)

The landfill mulch can be good, but there have been problems with pests, invasive weeds, and metal scraps

Cinder is added as plant support media (fairly low cost-crushing lava can be used as a support media, but not sure of the cost effective to crush the rock...it is done for large road building projects)... wether any lot needs to be ripped depends on that particular lot.... it really is that site-specific...if your lot is a solid sheet pahoehoe flow, there may be little to no places to plant without drilling or busting holes...

If you are more accustomed to farming in clay, there are many areas that have deep clays (from volcanic ash eruptions) some of those are north of highway 11 (and OL & HA Ag Subdivisions) on the side of Mauna Loa, and most of the east side of Mauna Kea (normally called the Hamakua Coast, but include South & North Hilo). Although these lands may be more $$$ to buy, many farmers lease farm land, or even buy into long-term AG leaseholds...(plus on the Mauna Kea soils, less N limited)

[Greenreef]

Thanks for the info really helpful as far as what to expect in terms of variation and picking a site carefully. Anyone have a good realtor site for areas ousted of the subdivisions or a good one to meet on a trip? For the most part all I can find for 5-15k an acre is HA and OLE on the main subdiv real-estate page. Because it takes a few years for trees to establish I was planning on starting now and allowing 2-5 years for things to grow to maturity while checking in twice a year or so then moving and likely getting a job in Hilo or kona in aquculture. I know the whole set and forget idea can backfire so I'm not expecting 100% sucsess, even 50/50 would be ok. Just a bit interested in any you should do this or you should definitely not do this advice. As far as invasive and nitrogen fixers, I will stick to as non invasive as possible so clumping bamboo only and pigeon pea or sun hemp for N. Are these highly invasive here? Most of the info on sun hemp is for mainland US where it can't go to seed, and IDK for pigeon pea.

I'm. Not exactly trying to stay out of the rain belt just on the sunnier border of it. Just looking at pics online I see HA with scattered clouds all the time, OLE with clear skies and fern acres with full cover so I'm thinking 4-800ft is where I want to be for 100" of rain but not pouring and cloudy all the time, in otherwords less than 200" of rain. Yes I know individual geography affects this but is this a good elevation range in general?

So it looks like I'm going on vacation in a few months to scout things out, anything I should do or see while on the big island?

[Rene Siracusa]

With our year-round growing season, grubbing will encourage weed infestations and you won't be around often enough to keep them under control unless you like to spend your $$ on lots of herbicide. Weed eating will keep that slope from eroding while you plant trees wherever you can - find the spaces between the lava - I call it puka planting. There are groundcovers that can help hold the soil on a slope, like peanuts, comfrey, pohinahina. Stay away from wedelia. Until you walk your land and see what weeds and natives are on it, it's hard to give advice, because every lot is different. Our local environmental organization, Malama O Puna, does have a program where they will walk your lot with you, identify what you have, and offer suggestions and alternatives. www.malamaopuna.org.

[Carey]

Get a copy & read the "Atlas of Hawai`i" by Sonia & Jim Juvik (UH Press) This volume will give you a good basis for looking at this island in many different aspects for growing & living here.

Definitely try to talk to (or email) many of the growers already on island:
Richard Ha has a lot of insight on growing many produce stocks
Also do a search this forum for some of the growers here, as there are a wide variety that do post (from ornamentals, to coffee, to berries, to landscape plants)

2X a year may sound like a lot of visiting, but here, other plants/pests can invade your lot in 6 months (our avos routinely grow 10' or more in that time...& in 6mos a horde of pests can sap your plants)

Most landowners in Puna spend much of their garden time controlling the growth, both of the plants we want, and more so the other plants... planting Nfixers will have the effect of releasing the total potential of foreign invasive plants (most of the native plants are mostly low N tolerant, so Nfixers do not have as great effect on their growth)

[pslamont]

I am in upper Puna and have about 13 feet of soil. It tends to be N poor but the clay has great micronutrients and responds well to amendment. Still, you spent most of your time fighting back the jungle. Planting and leaving is not a practical choice that I can see. It takes diligent work to control growth. Just my two cents....

I want to be the kind of woman that, when my feet
hit the floor each morning, the devil says

"Oh Crap, She's up!"

[IKE]

Aloha All

It shouldn't surprise us that more and more people are beginning to wake up about our food situation. Living in these islands, so far away from any other landmass, we are dependent on much of our food being imported and at the mercy of many whims of nature and man.

Farmers Markets & CSAs:
Farmers markets keep opening all around our island. Almost 30 of them at last count!...and new CSA farms or brokers are also popping up all around us.


Farmers Market Co-ops:
We know that not all of us can farm or grow enough to maintain a booth of our own at any of the farmers markets, or have the time to do so, but here is a concept that started a bit over a year ago and now others are picking up in other areas.

There are several very enterprising people who are forming co-ops to sell whatever amount of produce/fruit/veggies you might have growing in your yards or farms w/o having to make a weekly commitment to rent or man your own booth at a market.

The concept is simple; you harvest your trees and the co-op picks up that harvest the evening before market or you drop it off at a pre-designated location. You set your price, they keep a % of sales, remaining costs and profits are split between members according to what sells each day.


The first one we know of was the Koa'e Community Co-op representing over 30 individuals or farmers and founded by Catarina Saragoza (catzdodge@gmail.com) who takes the collective produce/merchandise and sells it at the S. P. A. C. E. farmers market in Seaview. Check the Friday, November 25, 2011 blog post to see the impressive results in just a years' time.

The newest one we have heard of is the Maku'u Backyard Growers Co-op founded by Mary & Sean Jennings (982-8925 - wjennings@gmail.com) - this co-op has been patterned after the Koa'e Community Co-op and are actively looking for members to join and sell their harvests/products at the Maku'u Farmers Market, hopefully starting February 18th.

Recently, interest has been expressed to possibly start a co-op in the Honoka'a area. If this comes to be, I will be sharing the info with you. If interested in knowing more about this project let me know and I can put you in contact with the individuals who are interested in starting it.

If you know of other co-ops around the island that are collectively selling in our farmers markets, please let me know.


Community Gardens:
A Ka'u Community Garden has already been started in donated lands. More information will be available when they are ready to open to the public for tours, workshops and so forth.
http://www.kaucommunitygarden.webs.com/

The Pahoa Community Garden is looking for volunteers for a Garden Work Party, March 10 from 3 pm until pau. The garden is located directly
across from Cash & Carry and backs up to the Island Naturals parking
lot in downtown Pahoa. We're looking for volunteers to help transform this space into a positive, edible paradise for the whole community to enjoy. An 'ulu tree has been graciously donated as well as some bananas, sweet potato and coconut keiki's. We'd love to get more, so if you have any plants you'd like to donate, bring them along. Especially Hawaiian Canoe crops such as awa, kalo, ti, awapuhi, pia, etc.

We could also use some materials such as cardboard, soil, manure, etc.
Remember to bring the proper work clothes, some tools, such as
shovels, pick-axes, o'o bars, weeders, etc. And bring your friends.
Its a party!! Sponsored by Pahoa Village Museum and the East Hawaii Community Timebank

Let's Grow Hilo sponsored by the Downtown Improvement Association of Hilo is already up and running and making great strides in changing the landscape in several downtown areas.

Food Swaps:
Individuals who are interested in small time bartering of food and related items such as food plants, seeds, cuttings; vegetables, fruits; preserves, jams, jellies; also livestock and derivatives such as milk, butter, cheese, eggs, etc. including homemade breads and other baked goods, are joining groups such as Share the Harvest a Big Island based Yahoo group where members can list/share their excess garden or backyard harvests with others and in turn receive the items they can't grow or make themselves.

If you're aware of any movement or co-op along the order of the above around our island, please let me know so I can continue to update this post.

Aloha and Mahalo


IKE PAYNE