State Senate Dist. 2 candidates?

[hotinhawaii]

Thanks robguz. You have brought up enough topics for discussion to keep Punaweb swamped for years!
I'll let you write for me though since there is nothing you have written in this thread that I disagree with.

[DaVinci]

@robguz: Just to be clear... In your most recent post here, you assert that "there can be things that have not gone through that [rigorous scientific testing] process that may be useful." And then later, in that same post, you go on: "It's safe to say something that fails to have proven efficacy in human trials is akin to snake oil." Which is true? Or are you saying that snake oil may be useful? One thing is clear from your posts, and that, sadly, is your disdain for the EBT program. The people of Puna who take advantage of the benefits of that program are not children and it is condescending of you to pronounce what they ought or ought not to be able to purchase with your precious tax dollars. Also, please help sort out for me another inconsistency in your posts. You stated early on that you agree with a lot of Ruderman's positions. So do I, so I'm with you there. Later however, you announce that you will not vote Democratic if Ruderman wins his primary. So you will vote against your own self interests because of a water machine that seems to irk you? Or do you plan on removing yourself from your duty as a citizen? Finally, you mention your desire to vote "for a progressive who as a legislator is going to base decisions where relevant on sound science and research." Of the other three men running, which one did you have in mind? You neglected to name him, and I'm curious as to who you think is more rational, informed and progressive than Ruderman. They all seem to be good men, in my opinion, but I think Ruderman will serve Puna and Ka'u more effectively than any of the others.

[hotinhawaii]

DaVinci, your first comment sets up a straw man argument then attempts to knock it down. The two comments made by robguz are different and not contradictory. If snake oil product X has not been rigorously scientifically tested, it may be useful. No one can know yet. However, if snake oil product Y has been tested and failed to prove its efficacy, then it is indeed just snake oil.

As for the EBT disdain, is your argument that people should be able to purchase anything they want on EBT? Then, what about alcohol? After all, EBT users aren't children. EBT is meant as a program to feed people to keep them from going hungry. Wasting government money on tap water is no different from wasting it on alcohol. As a society, we already decide what qualifies for EBT spending and what does not. It seems that plain tap water (that we already subsidize) which has been run through a witch-doctor machine and marked up exorbitantly should not qualify for EBT. (I also don't think bottled water should be available on EBT, but I digress.) And to be clear, I have no problem with people receiving EBT benefits when they need it.

[robguz]

Until something is proven to work there is a possibility that it may be helpful, and that's usually what drives the research in the first place. If it goes through testing, and doesn't work, but is still sold as if it does work, then it is snake oil. Many of those things can be disproven quite easily without having to go through clinical trials. There was no contradiction in what I said. The situation applies to most supplements found on health food store shelves. Another example I've seen for sale there are ear candles. Via Wikipedia- "Medical research has shown that the practice is both dangerous and ineffective and does not help remove earwax or other toxins." I have no problem with EBT and think food stamp eligibility should be expanded, especially in this economy. I have a big problem with a store's decision to charge on EBT the same tap water you can get from from the County water spigots by pretending that has some magic properties that depend of people having no understanding of how the body works or deals with acidic vs. alkaline food or water ingested. I never said I would vote against my own interests, and I don't have another candidate in mind at this point. Every candidate holds a mix of opinions I may agree or disagree with so every time one votes they are voting both for someone they disagree with on some issues, and against someone they agree with on other issues. No contradiction there.

I think with any candidate who hasn't been elected to any office before, in addition to looking at their views, you need to judge them on what else they do publicly. A couple years ago when his store moved in Hilo he stated that it would result in significantly lower prices. I can't think of anything I buy there that is significantly cheaper than before, and I didn't see any drop in prices shortly after the move either. So that doesn't make me trust him, and the escalating prices far beyond CPI for food as calculated for Hawaii disproportionately hurts those on EBT because they have less money to get by. That's strike 1 against him. The making a living off of supplements to me is unethical, with allowing EBT to be used for tap water just one example of that. Strike 2. It sounds like the wages he pays are pretty low, so that doesn't make me think he actually applies progressive employment practices or wages, so that's strike 3. If his stores make one think, wow this place is so wonderful that the owner should be elected to some office, then by all means vote for him.

[Rene Siracusa]

@robguz re "a store's decision" to sell tap water on EBT:

The USDA determines what things are eligible for EBT purchase, not store owners. And although the basic idea is so that families, and especially children, will not starve, the USDA does allow candy, high sugar content soft drinks and bottled water to be purchased with EBT. You can buy those items in every single market on the island with your EBT card. Alcoholic beverages are not eligible. Chewing gum, which has no nutritional value and isn't even swallowed, is allowed. Go figgah!

Here in Puna a lot of people are on catchment, and their catchment water is not always potable. Catchment water can be contaminated with all sorts of nasties. So they need to buy potable water, even if it's tap water, because our tap water from the Water Dept. is potable. They can buy bottles in-store with their EBT card. The water machines outside Pahoa Naturals and Malama Market, where you bring your own container, are coin operated - no EBT. There is a demand in Puna for potable water and every single grocery I know of provides this option. The alternative, of giving children non-potable water with all the pathogens in it, is not acceptable.

[Russell]

Russell Ruderman, Candidate here: Where to start? A PBS video is online with all 4 of us in a roundtable discussion. It is very educational as you can see each of us and our thoughts & styles. I have a link to the PBS video at russellruderman.com

Robguz, you seem to have a vendetta. We don't sell snake oil, thanks, but we have well-documented studies about alkaline water, which is a worldwide phenomenon. Sorry you don't understand alkaline water and the ways it has helped people. You can choose to not buy it, but why are you upset that others choose to buy it? They know something you don't, that's all. I don't know how you could have missed the price reduction after our move: it was dramatic and across the board. Everyone else seems to have noticed. Mana Foods has lower prices than anyone in the state, that doesn't make me a bad guy. For you, I think you'd prefer someone who has no track record, then you can't nitpick about his accomplishments, and not let reality get in the way.

I am very proud of employing over 150 people in an ethical and profitable manner. I'm also proud of the many awards we've won, including environmental awards from Recycle Hawaii, and for being the biggest supporter of organic farms on the island. I am also proud of our policies, which are based on respect for all and integrity in business practices. I will defend them because I believe in them.

Yes, wages are sometimes different between Hilo & Kona, as is the cost of living. The salary that was mentioned for an experienced baker is simply inaccurate.

Why don't people ask when they don't understand something, instead of throwing stones? If anyone would like to find out about Island Naturals policies I encourage them to ask, any day.

Russell

[DaVinci]

@hotinhawaii. Clever. You point out my straw man and then attack with an absurdo reductio argument of your own. Is it my argument that people should be able to buy anything they want on EBT? Well, did I argue that point? No, I didn't. And Rene made several salient points about EBT and about purchasing water here in Puna, so I'll let hers be the last word unless either of you try and flog that dead horse. But hey, I get it. You don't like Russell. Okay. Fine. I guess you guys are gonna vote for whoever it is your gonna vote for, but it really does start to sound like a vendetta after a while. @robguz. I can't resist asking about two more things: first, you've spewed quite a few electrons at us all explaining why Russell's stores are so bad, but you "can't think of anything [you] buy there that is significantly cheaper than before..." Why do you buy anything there? If Russell is so bad, why reward him with your custom in the first place? Second, you refute my suggestion that you vote against your own interests (which align with Russell's, as stipulated by you in a previous post) but you "don't have another candidate in mind at this point." Quick reminder: this point is almost precisely one month from the primary date. The deadline for new candidates is well behind us now. The men running against Russell are not unknowns, and Russell is easily the most progressive of the bunch. So who exactly are you waiting for? Russell Ruderman tries to do right by the people of Hawaii, tries to do right for the environment, and now instead of sitting back and counting his money, he's spending it to try and land a job that pays less than what teachers make so he can serve the public as their duly appointed representative. Yeah, I see what you mean... what a snake!

[Kapohocat]

Although I dont much about Russell, except that he has been around a long time, employs a neighbor of mine who seems happy there, sells an ice cream brand we love, seems fairly liberal but manages to run a company well.... and uses solar to defray elec costs, recycles, etc.

These are the things I admire as a libertarian.

But will keep my eyes/ears/mind open for the next few months to see what all the candidates have to say.

Robguz, although I agree with you in theory - EBT should be used for good, healthy food - not candy, maybe not snake oil water (if thats the case and I dont know), but these are not choices we get to make for others. If I want government to stay out of my life, then others deserve the same respect with their lives. We do not get to pick and choose which liberties we can enforce.... although it seems to be so at the moment with our government. okay this is heading off into a different rant!

[robguz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_water
http://www.apswater.com/article.asp?id=198&title=Alkaline_Water_Hoax_-_It_Is_Simple_Science.
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

I wouldn't say I have a vendetta. I was stating my opinion in a clear and reasoned manner, people have taken issue with it, so I've responded back. Rene's statement that the alternative to selling tap water at a store as some miracle treatment (when it is available for free from the County in several roadside locations) is to give children non-potable water with pathogens, speaks for itself and made clear the futility of responding with information about the scientific method. I still appreciate all the work she's done around redistricting, fighting invasive species, etc. I feel no need to defend my shopping decisions to Davinci or anyone else. The decision here is about voting for candidates or not. For anyone that is happy with whatever candidate you're supporting in whatever race, well that's great. Many people don't decide on some races until they are in the voting booths. I certainly haven't yet in this race, or County Council 5 for that matter but have ruled out a candidate in each race.

Mr. Ruderman--your response comes across (to me anyway) as feeling voters that disagree with you have a vendetta. I just don't particularly like the selling of hoaxes, whether it is the supplement industry or the pharmaceutical industry. I think any educated person should be upset when others (especially those most economically struggling) are fooled into throwing their money away on things without proven benefit. Please see any of the links above for example. It upsets me that so many people in Puna seem to avoid proven medical treatments in hopes that lighting a candle in their ear or drinking tap water will magically cure them. "You don't understand alkaline water." "They know something you don't." How is that "reasoning" any different than the reasoning of a religious fundamentalist? This is a tendency among alternative "medicine" and supplement advocates I am particularly wary of. I never said you were a bad guy. Please don't tell me what I would prefer. By having a well-reasoned and scientifically supportable opinion I am "nitpicking about his accomplishments." And you infer I am not letting "reality get in the way." Yet you defend alkaline water despite overwhelming scientific evidence that it is a hoax. Your reaction here to someone who disagrees with you is interesting, to say the least. I'll have to check out the video of the roundtable discussion, so thanks for that info. I expect it is very likely that you will win, and if so I'll be happy for you and expect you will do a decent job. This thread asked for individual takes on the candidates, so I gave mine on one. If the other candidates had stores that I had opinions on I would have shared those too. I don't expect any candidate, store owner, etc to please all the people all the time. I also don't expect them to tell those that disagree with some aspect of their record that they have a vendetta, are nitpicking, and aren't dealing with reality.

I really would like to hear more opinions on the other candidates, and I appreciate the pro-Ruderman comments too. I also appreciate that Mr. Ruderman has worked towards bettering Puna and supporting local farmers, solar, and recycling.

I'd also be inclined to vote for a candidate that says they will introduce gay marriage legislation every session until it passes, try widen 130 much faster than currently planned, demand Oceanic provide top notch internet to more rural areas in order to retain their monopoly, dramatically expand geothermal and solar, get us a hospital with an ED, and increase taxes on the wealthy significantly.

[nani1970]

I appreciate everyone's comments on this thread, and from first hand experience,
The wage for an experienced baker is accurate.