Posts: 3,035
Threads: 201
Joined: Aug 2006
We have seen up to 6 Nene at a time at the Beach Road cliffs in HPP over the last 3 or 4 years, both banded and unbanded. What worries me about that is the number of off leash dogs down there. We always keep our dogs on leash, but have to constantly deal with off leash dogs, not all of whom are particularly responsive to their owners' verbal commands. We can protect our dogs but Nene are defenseless and are not hardwired to think about predators, since they evolved in Hawaii before the introduction of people, dogs, or cars.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
I have to admit that I find it very difficult to believe nene can distinguish between leashed and unleashed dogs and the level of threat they may have. They might have evolved to the point where they see people as little threat but I really can't see them looking out for leashes and making a decision based on that.
I'm willing to be proved wrong but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/
Posts: 3,035
Threads: 201
Joined: Aug 2006
We have had nene approach us when we had our dogs with us, they had no fear of either us or the dogs.
I will continue take the word of the biologists on this one; the experts all say that because nene evolved on these isolated islands during the long period of time when the only mammals were monk seals and the Hawaiian bat, they have no concept of being prey, or what predators are. "Basic bird instincts" are developed by living with predators for many, many centuries, something nene have not experienced until recently. Birds that live with predators and didn't develop those instincts died out and became extinct. In evolutionary terms humans, dogs, cats, mongoose and other predators have only been on these islands for a short time, and during that time the nene has become threatened with extinction, that is why they are a protected species under law.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Posts: 2,980
Threads: 177
Joined: Aug 2006
I am very familiar with these nene. We are fortunate to have them on our street and it is always blessing to see them passing over head and making their distinctive calls. Each time they do I get a little thrill. There is a little undeveloped County park cliff-side just a few hundred few down from me. I take my leashed female dalmatian over there a lot. On several occasions I have rounded the corner entering the park to find nene near the cliff edge. They have never fled from us. She can't quite figure out what they are and is a little afraid of them as they are taller than her, but she would investigate, I think, if I gave her the opportunity. I don't. When the nene are there, we turn around and leave. We just leave. We leave for the simple reason that the nene are a protected species and an important vestige of the days when Hawaii was ecologically isolated. The law and my own moral sense keep me from doing anything that would harass the nene.
While it is probably true that they would fly if my dog were unleashed and attacked them, that is no reason to allow your dog to be unleashed in what is in essence an extension of a nene preserve. They are not here for your dog's sport. If I throw a rock at your head (something I would never, of course, actually do or even dream of doing), you are capable of ducking. That doesn't entitle me to throw a rock at your head. I might connect, or scare you. Your dog might also connect, or disturb the nene.
I am always mystified by people who think that they can simply let their dogs run loose without regard to the rights of other creatures (humans, other dogs) not to be placed in fear of what your dog might do. One important aspect of aloha is consideration for others. And if your dog is in the least bit nippy, or inclined to give you a demonstration sufficient for you to form the conclusion that nene routinely flee dogs, all the more reason to leash him when off of your property.
Posts: 246
Threads: 7
Joined: Feb 2012
@ Kelena, I have seen comments of good sense by you on other topics also. I like the way you think! Seems silly, but people these days just don't seem to possess common sense!!!  sad state of affairs.
islandgirl
Posts: 2,980
Threads: 177
Joined: Aug 2006
You may wish to re-read my comment carefully. Nothing in it mentions a particular person. In American English, we often refer to "you" where the English might say "One" (as in "One must be careful around nene", for example). And my comment assumes nothing. Instead, it says "IF your dog" does X, Y or Z, then perhaps you should leash it. I refer not to a particular person but to the practice of having loose dogs around nene (or anywhere if your dog is nippy). I do rather expressly disagree with the notion that the nene will always fly away. My comment was intended to express agreement with csgray's opinion that nene do not generally fear dogs. That has been my experience. My comment was not intended as a lecture to anyone. It was too short for that, and I think a lecture would be a little bit more extended and a lot more forceful.
Posts: 3,035
Threads: 201
Joined: Aug 2006
To quote one of my favorite movies: "What we have here is a failure to communicate."
This is a perfect example of how written language is perceived so differently than spoken language, and somehow on the internet the misunderstanding just gets multiplied. I was not trying to prove you wrong Deborah, but I really don't want people to think that the nene has defenses it doesn't have. I think it may be that sudden movements can make them fly away, which people could interpret as being aware of predators as predators, when they really aren't. We've had them land right next to us and our dogs, and when the dogs went into full on predator alert mode (perked ears, forward leaning stance, low pitched throat rumble) the nene didn't even notice but just waddled up to us. Needless to say we turned around and walked away, but they followed us for probably 50 feet.
My favorite picture of one of my adult daughters shows her perched on top of a picnic table in HVNP with a nene in full pursuit. It was so used to being fed it was trying to steal her lunch right out of her hand. Nothing like getting mugged by an endangered bird!
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Posts: 246
Threads: 7
Joined: Feb 2012
@ HawaiianDeborah - I did not think kelena was speaking to you or at anyone particular. I just took it as stating some good sense about reading a dogs behavior and also not taking any chances around an endangered species.
I use to raise German Shepherds and had to protect them more than protect people from them! I never gave chances for a bad situation to occur. So many people let their dogs and cats run free without regard to other peoples property. As far as I am concerned anyone who lets their animals run free has disregard for the animal as well. I liked kelena's approach with HER animal, she reads the situation well as an owner and trainer of her dog.
islandgirl
Posts: 2,980
Threads: 177
Joined: Aug 2006
I'm a guy and you can't even dress me in drag. The result would be an offense to humanity.
Posts: 2,149
Threads: 90
Joined: Feb 2006
quote:
Originally posted by csgray
My favorite picture of one of my adult daughters shows her perched on top of a picnic table in HVNP with a nene in full pursuit. It was so used to being fed it was trying to steal her lunch right out of her hand. Nothing like getting mugged by an endangered bird!
Carol
Was that at the Hilina Pali Campground picnic area? While lunching there one day, a nene jumped onto our table and helped herself to a bag of potato chips. We had been told not to bother them, but felt that gently shooing her away in this instance was for her own good!
|
