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quote:
Originally posted by Obie
Rob,
I am talking about the subdivision of 5 acre properties,not the creation of a subdivision out of huge properties.
The zoning in Vacationland Farmlots calls for 5 acre minimum properties and the county is allowing some of the properties down here to be subdivided without upgrading the roads or water.
Obie,
I am talking about the creation of 80,000+ lots and 750+ miles of substandard roads.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Actually that is exactly what I want them to do. Put infrastructure in HPP. Pave all the roads...put in water lines. The taxes we pay in HPP are ridiculously low. Especially with the exemption. It will fall back to the county and they will be forced to make the improvements needed and then tax us on the improvements. Thats what many people in HPP have been wanting for a very long time!
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Fugitive dust regulations have been on the books for a long time. I doubt that the EPA is interested in getting into these neighborhood squabbles. Day got bigga fish to fry.
Anyway, the EPA Regs dictate to the States and Counties what regulations to apply; EPA might come down on the State for not complying with federal law when HPP was approved, not HPP.
Sounds like a lot of sabre rattling by DoH.
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Sorry folks,but all over the USA water systems have almost always been put in by private water user associations.
Once the system is established,a municipal system may take it over or accept it into their system.
Roads in subdivisions are built by the developer.
Once HPP puts in all of their own roads to county standards and installs water lines to water department standards,the county and water department will take over maintenance.
That's how it works in the real world.
When I lived in Utah the water district decided that our water lines were substandard!
It was a mishmash of old water systems.Everyone in my neighborhood was sent a bill for $5500.00 .You could pay upfront or pay over 10 years.
In Hawaii I guess that won't work.
Who is going to pay for HPP's roads.I bought in a subdivision that had semi paved road and then we invested the money to have them upgraded!!
I am not a bit happy about seeing my tax money ,fuel tax or other wise go to pay for the paving of HPP's roads.
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I am not suggesting doing nothing. On the contrary, I am suggesting doing something: getting legal representation. Doing nothing is rolling over and acceding to every wish of the complaining parties and to every suggestion from the Deputy Attorney General.
As for the County of Hawaii's legal obligations, if any, I think it is probably best to address one thing at a time and not to turn this into a legal free-for-all. I would address that issue later. But that's me. As for the statute of limitations, again, that is for an attorney (and perhaps ultimately a court) to determine. However, I would note that if the government has an express legal obligation to do something and fails to do so, that obligation could be regarded as continuing. It is difficult to bring an action to mandate that the government do something it has an obligation to do, but it can and does happen. It is an uphill battle. I don't know enough about the asserted obligation to comment. I do think that we should probably keep this simple and respond to the administrative action, with the guidance of legal counsel. If mitigation is required, we can then consider our options.
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Obie,
I don't know where your expertise is drawn from, but I am retired from a lifetime of rural and semi-rural residential developement and in my experience most of your infrastructure scenarios just aren't the case.
Dan
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Obie,
With all due respect, rare is the occasion when you can translate what happens "in the real world" with what can be done here in Hawaii. I say this partly cynically and partly because there are many valid cultural, geographic, political, financial and numerous other considerations that exist in Hawaii and not in what you call "the real world." For example, as I understand it, bringing a road (and other infrastructure) up to official county standards doesn't force the county to accept it and undertake its perpetual maintenance -- it's just table stakes that makes assumption of the road eligible for consideration. The County doesn't have enough money to meet its current obligations, so why should it willingly agree to take on more obligations if it can possibly avoid it. And when 80% of the total property value (the basis of taxes) in on the west side of the Island, you can be sure that any substantial increase of expenditures on the Windward side would not come without a fight.
The bottom line is, there are no easy answers to solve a problem created before many of Puna's residents were born.
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Cupla questions I have:
1: Does HPP have some money already set aside to do SOME paving? If there is, wouldn't this be subtracted from the 20 million to get a true "added" cost to pave all the roads?
2: Would the road fees ($265 per lot per year) be eliminated or changed somehow as part of the road fees is for paving additional roads?
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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Mahalo Kelena...legal, its the only sane beginning to the end
Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by EightFingers
Cupla questions I have:
1: Does HPP have some money already set aside to do SOME paving? If there is, wouldn't this be subtracted from the 20 million to get a true "added" cost to pave all the roads?
2: Would the road fees ($265 per lot per year) be eliminated or changed somehow as part of the road fees is for paving additional roads?
1. Yes, but my understanding is that it would take the remainder of that plus the $20M to do it all. And even then one has to believe they can do it for projected cost, which is heavily dependent on oil prices. As I told one BOD member, "Y'all are just one Middle East crisis or refinery explosion away from being made liars yet again." Not that long ago they told us they could do it for $12M.
2. The assessment would be on top of the current road fees. It is possible that the fees would go down eventually as roads are paved, but paved roads require maintenance, too. The fees won't go away.
