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I will be comming for an extended visit soon, probably making the transisition from visitor to resident by the end of 13.
Are there any other industries seeking to exploit (for lack of a better word) the free energy Madame Pele is providing besides the feeble attempt at power production by PVG/HELCO?
Disclosure...I own stock in both.
I can think of a thousand industries that could be enviromentally managed with such a bounty of "free" energy.
I also think any power/industrial plants should be as far away from residential/agricultural holdings as possible, using the magic of "wires" to transmit electricity.
Just one thought, 75% of the cost of producing corrugated fiber board (cardboard) is the energy to heat the corrugator, the remaining 25% pays for everything else.....Just a few thoughts, rubber recycling, plastic, steel. The list is endless if you had free/cheap heat energy. Hundreds if not thousands of good jobs in just a few years if properly managed.[  ]
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
Mahalo
Rick
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
Mahalo
Rick
Posts: 1,930
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Joined: Jun 2012
Now, you're just trolling. So far, you are starting to show a lot of indicators of mainland myopia, applying a mainland view to the BI. JFYI, that isn't going to work well for you unless you can let them go. Or you can join the grumpy old white men's club in Pahoa, they do a lot of comparing of the mainland with the BI.
Even doing a lot of research about geothermal on the BI, it is difficult to tell exactly what is going on. As for PGV, it is Ormat PGV, and they are just under contract to HELCO, not part of it. As for "feeble power", PGV is ramping up to 38MW. All of Puna uses 6MW. It appears to me the Puna diesel-electric plant has been at near idle for a year or so. It has a capacity of near 30MW. There is also the Hilo diesel-electric plant, also at near idle. The reality is there is much more delivery capacity on the eastside now without the load demand, i.e. no industry.
One of my hobbies is going around and looking at electrical distribution systems, so the system implemented here is very interesting. The high voltage line easement is alongside the highways. Due to this, they appear to be much lower voltage than is usually associated with high voltage lines on the mainland, confirmed by a recent HELCO article. This means the attenuation over distance is higher, so power sources only supply over a limited distance. There are so many people that go on and on about "the grid" here and that is another usage of a mainland term to the BI that is erroneous. "The grid" exists on the mainland because it crosses back and forth, like a grid. On the BI, it is basically a loop. Power lines don't cross back and forth across the center of the island (Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa prevent that). This power "loop" has multiple power nodes with limited range, so PGV isn't really able to provide power to the west side, or even that far north. HELCO has an RFP out that will be presented over the next few months. There are at least twenty companies with proposals.
Initially, this RFP was only for the west side but situations may be changing. The significant recent event was the anti-geothermal people failed to notice the passing of Act 97 which basically stripped Hawaii county of geothermal permitting authority and put it under DLNR. Supposedly, the anti-geothermal people are working to get Act 97 repealed which is kind of silly since it was moved to DLNR because geothermal is a STATE ASSET, not just a Hawaii county asset. So, those battle lines will be forming over the next few months, plenty of time for you to get involved, one way or the other.
"It was a majority decision to descend into the Dark Ages.
Don't worry, be happy, bang on da drum all day!"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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quote:
I can think of a thousand industries that could be enviromentally managed with such a bounty of "free" energy.
Name all of them.
Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/
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HELCO does refer to their distribution as a grid, and the saddle does have transmission lines (with fairly high line loss...but not as high as the the N. Kohala lines ...
It would be great if the geothermal was "free". but there is infrastructure, personnel & constant maintenance which offsets the "free" element....
even the sourcing of the fiber would entail costs... right now, some on island are seeing the transport of eucalyptus logs up the Hamakua coast - running about one truck (really new looking) per ten minutes.... think of the infrastructure to cut, process, load, transport & unload that harvest rate....let alone the land costs & initial planting (which has been covered mostly by the taxpayers) and I think you can understand that "free" comes with costs...
The Kohala Center has some excellent resources looking at sustainable energy, and R. Ha, one of our forum members, has been active in looking at this...
Line loss is one of the horrible wastes that has not been adequately addressed, and until we have better distribution, will continue to waste our electrical production, no matter the source.... at a huge cost to all of us...
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All of you are both exactly right and fantastically wrong, because you're looking at the wrong end of the stick.
Hint: it's not an "infrastructure" problem, or an "electricity" problem. The name of the game is, has been, and will ever be "maximizing profits", and as this game has become deeply ingrained in the political system, it's not likely to change, at least not "gently".
You could also look at the whole scenario as an "economics problem": the local wholesale power cost is higher than the retail price in most mainland markets, thereby creating no incentive for industry, without even considering the other externalities -- like high shipping costs (artificially maintained by the Jones Act).
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quote:
Originally posted by TomK
quote:
I can think of a thousand industries that could be enviromentally managed with such a bounty of "free" energy.
Name all of them.
Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_com...ted_States
[8D]
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
Mahalo
Rick
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
Mahalo
Rick
Posts: 2,466
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Joined: May 2008
So from this thread, I understand that *no* oil is being used to generate electricity on the BI?
Does anyone know what the highest voltage Helco uses to "transmit" electricity?
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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from their website & April county council meeting:
HELCO has 623 miles of 69kV high voltage lines
3,141 miles of 12kV stepped down distribution lines
Added: HELCO uses bunker oil, diesel & jet fuel, along with their hydroelectric generators on the Wailuku... they purchase all of the remaining fuel oil, wind, geothermal, hydro, biofuel, OTEC, solar, etc. generated electricity. A really good resource for those interested is the research by the Kohala Center... available online,
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I think we should cap the active vent with scrubbing stacks to clean the air, and use it to burn garbage and generate electricity.
We get rid of garbage and vog, and gain power with a single installation.
Yeah, I can think of a dozen reasons why that's not going to happen--but I'm not naming them all.
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Maybe it should only be free for non-white people.
Cheers
rainyjim
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