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One interesting thing to note, this ban is still very new, yet last months cleanup data is showing that it is reducing the amount of plastic bags collected as litter... granted this is just a one month total, and only for the small amount of monthly cleanups that do fill out the cleanup data sheets...
As the main goal was to reduce the amount of plastic bag litter & waste, it will be interesting to find out how/if/ wether people in this county really are changing the the way these bags have been used as litter & waste, or if the February data was an anomaly...
Perhaps a measure like this is what it takes to get enough people in this county to not litter enough to make a measurable difference (how long have we all been told not to litter....and yet until there is a monetary incentive...and a high enough incentive...there is litter & waste....)
AFWJAM, I agree that people should do the right thing without someone else (ie. government) telling them.... but having been involved in cleanup & waste product initiatives around the globe for 4 decades...
The reality is that people will waste resources unless they find a reason to treasure them... and as long as people see things as "free" they see no reason not to toss them....and enough people see no reason currently not to toss those things out as litter....
You would think after 4 decades of the global earth movement messages, people would not feel so free to litter.... but that is not the reality we actually live in.... if you can figure a way out of this dilemma without utilizing government, please do the action & get people to stop the plastic bag litter....
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Call it a "fee", call it a "tax", or call it a "gift from County to retailers", bottom line is this:
Because "some people" couldn't be responsible with their plastic bag litter, nobody gets "free" plastic bags anymore. (I have some of those nifty trash cans that are designed to fit a plastic shopping bag, great way to reuse the bags, which I will now have to purchase...)
The notion of "force" above is pretty close; I prefer to think of it as "forcing everything to the lowest common denominator".
You cannot legislate common decency into existence; it doesn't work that way.
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Most people put those little bags in big black 35 Gallon trash bags... so how are they counting them when the majority were/are hidden in other plastic bags...
So if it's up to the retailer to charge why don't they charge us all a half cent or a penny per bag? I suppose if I were charged a penny I wouldn't be bothered so much about it.
Hmmm, next time I'm in target I'm going to ask about the 5-6 cent credit per bag since I have a box 1000 bags coming... That being said...I always buy tofu from target because 1.49. Cheapest I've found. Sometimes they have eggs for 2 bucks but so does walmart.
Maybe we should turn this into a bag/cheap place to get certain food items. 
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
quote:
Originally posted by afwjam
Your entirely missing the point.
afwjam - I think I did understand your point. You would like stores and customers to be able to use of any type of bag they choose, without a specific type banned, or a cost mandated.
I was trying to make a point of my own, which was that I don't take this issue too seriously. People like Jefferson, Bastiat, and Franklin were able to accomplish the things they did, because they didn't spend a lot of time worrying about how to carry groceries. Burlap bag, wooden box, whatever works. Throw it in the wagon and lets get that Declaration of Independence signed.
If men like them did not have a consistent and well thought out philosophy of Liberty then we never would have had a Declaration of Independence. They would have thought government telling you or a business what container to use as completely absurd and utterly ineffectual in actually effecting change in human behavior for the positive.
FWIW,
I live were litter accumulates and blows into my yard but never had to pick up a white bag. Now, since the bag ban, I have had 5X more little stuff blowing into the yard.
aloha,
pog
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Here's something to think about !!
I may be wrong but I believe that Hawaii has a law that bottles of wine and distilled spirits have to be in a bag or under cover when they leave the store.
I refused a bag at Long's yesterday and the checker didn't know what to do.I ended up with a bottle of gin covered in pink tape !!!
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" It was rather revealing to me all those that came out in support of KYBC, then later when a thread was posted asking for donations out of financial necessity, only one other very generous Punaweber, malolo, donated. Think and act for yourself."
No AFWJAM, only one other Punawebber publicly trumpeted their donation, you have no idea who did or did not donate due to that thread. Not everyone uses charitable giving in their community as a way to rack up points in some bizarre ideological competition.
The plastic bag ban has had exactly zero impact on our household, we do everything exactly the way we did before the ban, except now I make sure that when I want to buy a huli huli chicken at Foodland that I have the washable vinyl bag in the car. Other than that, no difference, no crisis, no "tax".
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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I take my groceries to the car in the same shopping cart I brought them to the checkout stand. Then bag them at the car. No big deal.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
quote:
Originally posted by csgray
No AFWJAM, only one other Punawebber publicly trumpeted their donation, you have no idea who did or did not donate due to that thread. Not everyone uses charitable giving in their community as a way to rack up points in some bizarre ideological competition.
I am sorry, I did not mean to indicate that only people who posted in the thread donated. Sounds like you did and did not post, mahalo for your generous support. What amazed me was the amount of outspoken support for KYBC before in the other thread, most of it being ideologically justified, kinda like my donation. Later when the thread came up for donations, it was almost silent, no show of support for KYBC and their need. I have been a part of many philanthropic and charitable events and organizations, a sense of camaraderie and cooperation is extremely effective in motivating donations. Sorry if that offends you and thank you again for donating.
The plastic bag ban did not affect me much either, however I am still philosophically strongly opposed to it. I don't smoke, but I am also against smoking bans not allowing businesses to choose for their own establishment. I believe this sort of legislation is the result of a society of corrupted morals where force and violence are considered effective means of human to human interaction. I have been taught my whole life to be non-violent so I find these sort of morals flawed and corrupt.
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This is furthering this rather odd derail...
It looks like the posting by AFWJAM that Carol is referring to was deleted, but the thread asking for donation for KYBC was actually started one month PRIOR (1/13) to the KFC thread (2/20) that morphed into speculations of KYBC utilizing the space - the KYBC thread did not have any responses until it was bumped up a month later...
Many may have read it in the month prior and acted without the need to respond.... some may be donors may give time & talents.... some may have been donating for years.... but this is a program is & has been partially funded through government funds.....something that a few posters here do not feel should be.... link to a large HUD funding for KYBC renovation of the space they are in now:
http://archives.hud.gov/news/2004/pr04-090.cfm
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