baby thrown from truck three times.

[Obie]

The Baby was a puppy dog !!!!

[oink]

I don't know why but here goes:

My original post about $.50 for a bullet wasn't a reference in any way pro or anti, gun, ccw or whatever. It was a reference to the perpetrator having earned the extreme in punishment for his actions, assuming the story as related was true.

I didn't get any "hint" that anyone was suggesting they wouldn't intervene without a gun. However, an armed citizen might have been effective. It doesn't appear that anyone that was there was effective.

Assuming the story is true and accurately related, my take is this: Based on my understanding of Fl law and not bothering to research the Hawaiian equivalent, I see 3 charges of aggravated child abuse (a first degree felony) and at least one charge of attempted first degree capital murder (being only attempted it drops a degree to felony 1st and we are assuming it remained just attempted). Deadly force is certainly justified by both police or civilian, if necessary, to stop the crime in such a case (but not by civilian once the initial threat has passed).

If the police are not investigating the incident appropriate for it's seriousness, then somebody needs to be asking them why. That's also assuming it was actually reported as opposed to an anonymous phone call that was unable to be verified. Even if anonymous, there should have been a BOLO for the vehicle broadcast and a welfare check done on the child. If the license plate was good and an address associated with it, a welfare check on the child should have been done at that address, if not located with the initial BOLO (Be On the Look Out).

There ya go, that's my $.02. You can subtract it from the $.50.

quote:

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Originally posted by Obie: The Baby was a puppy dog !!!!

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I hope that's for real and not in jest.


Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Midnight Rambler]

quote:

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Originally posted by Obie

The Baby was a puppy dog !!!!

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If it was a dog that was getting beat up, the cops would be investigating it a lot more vigorously than if it was a baby.

[csgray]

The cops are the right people to call while something like this is happening, even if they are unlikely to show up in time, it is still the first call to make. If someone is abusing a child and they leave before the cops get there, the best people to give the license plate number and all other details to are the children's protective service people. They will follow up, and are very thankful to good Samaritan's who report child abuse. When my husband saw something similar in the Malama Market parking lot, although nowhere near as extreme (an adult woman screaming at 3-4 year old kids while throwing handfuls of gravel into the car at them), they really wanted the details said the license plate number was important, and asked if he wanted a follow up call. I hope the person who witnessed this made that call, and passed the license plate number on to them.

Carol

[TomK]

I asked a cashier at Keaau Foodland this evening if she knew anything about this and she didn't. I didn't have the time or energy to take this further but it didn't seem a big topic of conversation with staff. Maybe I just picked the wrong one to ask.

Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/

[coppercoin40]

quote:

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Originally posted by Obie

The Baby was a puppy dog !!!!

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Abusive behavior of small animals more often than not is a link between such acts and serious crimes. Animal cruelty has long been recognized as a signature pathology of the most serious violent offenders.

If the "baby was a puppy dog", it is no less of a crime against humanity, than if it was in fact a baby. I would have jumped in either way - most likely to my own detriment!

I once witnessed an act of animal cruelty on a beach. A man was throwing a small dog into heavy surf repeatedly, hurling it by its hind legs. The poor dog could barely crawl from the surf before it was hurled in again. The people I was with would not let me go save the animal for fear of what the man may do to me. I finally insisted that it did not matter I was going to stop this immediately if one of the men in our group did not step in and stop this man! Finally my brother in law went and spoke to the man telling him the federalizes would be here soon. They left - with the dog :/

What the heck is the matter with people? This world is so badly broken. What is causing all this mental illness? Why must people pick on the helpless like a baby or a puppy!?

[Obie]

I was just guessing that it was a dog.
Most in Hawaii consider dogs to be alarm systems and not living creatures.

@Oink
In Hawaii you have to respond in kind.If someone enters your house with a knife and you shoot them you will be arrested.

In this case you could drag the perp from the vehicle but that's all.

[oink]

@Obie,
Deadly force is justifiable only in self-defense or in defense of other innocents where one reasonably believes death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy may otherwise result....Using deadly force is otherwise not justifiable if it can be safely avoided by retreating or adopting other defensive strategies....not required....that you retreat from your home.

As the event was related, deadly force was being used against the child and during the incident a motor vehicle was being used as a weapon.
Edited for emphasis related to the topic
http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42&Itemid=47

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Bullwinkle]

document (photos or film) and report - anything else is hear say...... intervention can get dangerous - leave it to the pro's imho

[oink]

quote:

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leave it to the pro's imho

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Yes, leave it to the pros if time and circumstances permit. If time and circumstances do not permit the "pros" to resolve the situation and you stand idly by while an event, as described, occurs, resulting in the death or serious bodily injury of an innocent, then you are a coward and have failed in your civic duty and duty as a moral human.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.