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Ban importation of cats and euthanize every single stray you catch.
I bought a trap from Ace hardware in Hilo. I catch about 6 ferals a month on average. I drop them off at the humane society - no muss no fuss. These bleeding heart groups are not helping at all.
Nothing left to do but
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For a lot of people it isn't quite that simple. For a lot of people just euthanizing animals poses moral qualms in its own right, even if it has a laudable reason. Of course, if you're not a vegetarian (I'm not), how this squares with essentially euthanizing animals for food is whole other can of worms we probably shouldn't open. I think it boils down to the fact that cats are pet animals and therefore have established a special status in relation to humans. Many people have the same concern regarding eating equine meat. A lot of people have a genuine affection for all cats, not just their own. On the other hand, there are some people who seem to hate cats.
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quote:
Originally posted by dragon2k
Ban importation of cats and euthanize every single stray you catch.
I bought a trap from Ace hardware in Hilo. I catch about 6 ferals a month on average. I drop them off at the humane society - no muss no fuss. These bleeding heart groups are not helping at all.
Dragon, I generally agree with your comments, but buster , you went too far with this comment about banning the import of cats! [:0]
Why, if that had been the case, Hawaii wouldn't be blessed with my presence or my two wonderful cats! If my cats had voting rights on whether to move or not, I am confidant they would be "NO" votes. But selfish owner that I am, I couldn't leave them. They were so happy on their five acres with their big house and their beloved big barn!
I love my little house in my little subdivision with all the green jungle but to be honest, they hate it here. I don't have to worry about them straying into the neighbors yards because they can barely step out more than 30 feet any direction from the protection of the house. Two years now and they still are cautious with every single step they take across the grass. Never saw anything like it.
Fear not, Dragon, I still like most your posts [
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He who hoots with owls at night cannot soar with the eagles in the morning.
He who hoots with owls at night cannot soar with the eagles in the morning.
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D'oh! So sorry to offend. Felines hold a special place in our family history. Our move to the islands was delayed due to the poor health of our rescue cat, Big Boy. He was unable to make the trip and is buried on a mountain top with a view of the Pacific Ocean.
Our home in Puna is near a stereotypical crazy cat lady. A few of her cats adopted us and after TNR they are still living in our carport...
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Re: Cats that can't adapt. That has been our exact experience with the one cat that came from the mainland. He was freaked from day one (spent an entire month in a closet--no, I'm not joking). He has never and perhaps will never get comfortable here. It must be something about the change from a moderate, Mediterranean type environment (SF Bay Area) and the tropics. Adding to his confusion, we've taken him back to CA on at least one occasion and then back here. Now I think he's permanently discombobulated.
He also came from a very rural setting in CA to kind of sparse residential here.
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Hunt, you have made some valid points about why people view cats (and horses) differently than other animals. They do have status as companion animals. Where I see the problem arising is that in certain ways we as a society are being almost deliberately blind to the cost of having those companion animals. If someone wants to keep horses but can not afford to do so, there are only a couple of outcomes. One is that they see it and transfer ownership and care of the horses to someone else. Another is that they continue to keep the horses under substandard conditions of care. Because horses are so large and Hawaii does not have the kind of open range land that exists in some areas of the mainland we don't see people just turning horses loose where they would be out of sight and out of mind. I do recall a story from several years back of someone on Maui who actually got in trouble for failing to provide adequately for cattle and horses on their land.
Probably because they are small and definitely because they reproduce so quickly, cats are viewed differently. If one found a child wandering there would rightly be huge outcry. If it were a horse you would at least think "Where did THAT come from?". Cats just seem to appear and after 6 months they might just as easily have been born in the wild so it is more of an abstraction to say "Somebody is responsible for this cat winding up here".
I don't see any point in agonizing over where the cats came from. Some are strays. Some are abandoned. Some are truly feral. So what? Don't waste your time tilting at the windmills of irresponsible pet ownership. That will probably never change. We need to live in the here and now. In Hawaii it is common for people to expend great care and money on fighting cocks which have no reason to exist outside of illegal gambling. You will not see people behaving responsibly with cats before you stop seeing houses with dozens of little shelters out in the yard. You will not stop seeing houses with dozens of little shelters out in the yard within any useful time frame. That is a long way of saying that there will always be an influx of feral cats.
I understand that I am talking about incarcerating the cats for life. That is what is needed. Heck, the main reason the cats are out there in the first place is because someone else failed at that goal. I am basically unsympathetic to the argument that taking on the ownership of 100 cats is too expensive in both time and money. That is my point. Don't do it. And even more, don't pretend that you are doing so (owning/being responsible for cats) just to get the rest of society off your back when really you aren't reducing the problem just making more of a mess. By the way Hunt I don't mean you specifically but more generally TNR advocates.
So there it is. Yes it costs more to do it right. Do it right anyway or don't do it at all. If you can't afford to own a hundred cats well it is what it is. You just can't have 'em. It doesn't make you an evil person. What would make you if not evil at least irresponsible is if you make the rest of society pay for your emotional spending spree on society's credit card. Again I mean the generic "you".
I can admit that I have a bit of a problem with this topic. Half these posts are mine. It's that I am a logical guy and people are bringing illogical arguments. I would literally have less of a problem if some one said "F--- you, haole boy! I like cats and I wanna feed 'em! Leave me alone!" Totally irrational but coming from a place I can understand. Not claiming to be anything it's not and therefor hard to argue against. These arguments on the other hand are pathetic logic wise. There are many people they appeal to though and if converts are all you are after they do the job.
ETA: Not targeting Hunt specifically. I just took so long writing that others posted in between.
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkP
Debating this controversial topic is pretty much an exercise in futility but here goes. In all of my internet research I have read countless time how TNR has been shown to reduce feral cat numbers. I have never found data that supports this....
As I said in another topic, do what you feel comfortable with.
Around here we got acres of jungle behind us and the feral cats just kept popping out of the jungle as fast as we could take them to KHS.
So I started reading about alternatives and the TNR came up. So far our combo of mostly TNR and a bit of outright relocation to Humane Society is working. We had to do less of this when our Kitty was alive because she pretty much told them to hit the road.
The feral cat population kept to a pretty even level with few additions for almost 2 yrs. We also had very few mice or rats in our yard or coming to our yard from the jungle.
By the TNR and also feeding them every morning (they will hunt for dinner), we achieved a balance.
After taking 10 cats to the KHS for euthanasia we found that didnt work either, as 10 new cats moved in. Since Kitty (our real pet) we have had a new female move in with 2 kittens. and so the cycle starts over.
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"It's that I am a logical guy and people are bringing illogical arguments."
Except in your argument you could change the word "cats" to "children" and make the very same point, both being immoral and disgusting IMHO..
Just as an example..
I understand that I am talking about incarcerating the children for life. That is what is needed. Heck, the main reason the children are out there in the first place is because someone else failed at that goal. I am basically unsympathetic to the argument that taking on the ownership of 100 children is too expensive in both time and money. That is my point. Don't do it. And even more, don't pretend that you are doing so (owning/being responsible for children) just to get the rest of society off your back when really you aren't reducing the problem just making more of a mess.
So to make you happy, F____ off, I love cats and will continue to see they are treated morally, if you wish not to it is your choice, I only hope you learn what karma is when it bites you in the ass.
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Cats are not children. You are beyond reasoning with.
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I am beyond reasoing with, now THAT is funny. Look in the mirror...
