The Grid

[terracore]

quote:

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Originally posted by alaskyn66

Why nobody thought to look into micro grids or starting a co-op is beyond me.
Each subdivision could be creating its own power... And to heck with Helco.

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When our road co-ops can fill the potholes, then I'll believe an energy co-op can generate and distribute electricity.

[snorkle]

It's less about a subdivision POA becoming a power company than a cluster of homes sharing a modest power system without the high cost of transmission or HELCO profits.

[peteadams]

I find the proposal for small energy co-ops rather strange. What do people think they will be getting into by miniaturizing their electrical grid to a neighborhood or even a subdivision? When you live off the main grid, like we do, you have to accept a lot of limitations in your energy usage. You also have to accept shouldering the costs of installing and maintaining your system by yourself. Some people may be fine, morally or for some other reason, with accepting energy consumption limitations and some people may be wealthy enough to maintain their independent power system indefinitely. But organizing a relatively small group of people to create a physical plant to provide electricity? You not only have all the limitations of individual off grid power, but you additionally have all the limitations of small group politics. What if the energy limitation for this "modest" physical plant limited your refrigeration capability (it certainly does for us)? What if then someone in your power HOA decides they need a 27 cubic foot refrigerator for their growing family? The power HOA just says no? Does it automatically build out? Then who pays for the expansion? What if your battery bank flattens too many times because some people draw too much power at night? Who pays for more L-16's? The power guzzlers or everyone? What if the power guzzlers can't come up with the money for replacement? What's next? I'm sure you could write a large article about all the problems. Just look at some of the Punaweb threads on the local HOAs.

There's a lot of reasons that the grid infrastructure is simply the right answer for the population as a whole with a diverse universe of energy consumption needs. One of the biggest reasons for the grid infrastructure is distributing the cost and risk of providing the power over the wider population. While separating from the grid infrastructure may work for some, sustainable energy production for everyone, not just those accepting sharp limitations on energy consumption or those who are wealthy, will, IMO, always require some type of large scale distribution and wire is still the cheapest and best. I should also note that this is not saying that the current state of the Big Island grid is good or that HELCO should own or control that grid.

[DanielP]

Well stated Pete

[snorkle]

You bring up some valid points. Individual, or cluster Mini-Grid systems aren't for everyone; But as more and more people opt for this alternative, the remaining grid customers will pay more for this 19th century technology. More people will choose independence and technology will continue to improve.

I've lived both off and on the grid, and have found that you use what power is available. A relevant analogy would be the popularity of compact cars as gas becomes more expensive. People adjust, and guzzle less. How many people fifteen years ago would have balked at driving a compact?

Just as my car doesn't seat ten people, my off grid house doesn't have bathroom fixtures for six bulbs, or a 25 cubic foot reefer. I don't feel deprived.

[kalakoa]

Gosh, you're right, that's plenty of reasons to not even try.

After all, people can just keep giving (more) money to HELCO, right?

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by peteadams

I find the proposal for small energy co-ops rather strange.

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A voice of reason in the wilderness... and Pete's covered only the basics. maintenance to meltdowns - who's responsible, who's going to pay for it, who's going to fix it. Maybe there's a reason that there's an agency devoted to regulating the transmission of power across property boundaries...

[snorkle]

You guys are trying to make it rocket science. A typical system shared by several homes could consist of Solar/wind power for each home, and a shared back-up biofueled generator (fuel produced locally)for times of no sun or wind. Meters would determine usage and costs.

The technology is here; it's manageable, doesn't require an extensive, expensive, and vulnerable transmission grid. There are cheaper Lawyers then HELCO's team to draw up a use agreement.

If someone wanted out, they pay HELCO the $8000/pole and .43 a kilowatt/hour.

[peteadams]

"You guys are trying to make it rocket science."

Hardly. Replacing L-16's is not rocket science. However, getting a power HOA to pay for that replacement, especially to the satisfaction of all its members, may be beyond rocket science.

"The technology is here; it's manageable..."

The "throw technology at it" solution. As I am trying to point out, there are significant problems to positing small scale energy generation as the solution for the entire population. And if your solution is not supporting the entire population you are not offering a real solution to our electrical generation problems. Remember when they threw computers at teachers in the 80's, thinking that just the existence of a teacher with a computer in the classroom would bring about computer sophistication in the students? Didn't work. Somehow this small scale thinking also reminds me of Mao Zedong's backyard blast furnaces during the Cultural Revolution, another small scale technology debacle.

[kalakoa]

Throw technology at what, exactly?

People still use dial-up internet around here.