The Grid

[peteadams]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

Throw technology at what, exactly?

People still use dial-up internet around here.

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Those that have poles in front of their property at least. That's not all of us. Not getting any logical connection here. That some folks still depend on dialup doesn't change the options we face. We're talking about power generation and distribution. Whether going to small scale, homeowner association-style energy production with biofuels, solar, etc. makes more sense than, say, nearly unlimited geothermal energy production with an efficient grid.

[kalakoa]

Broadband and "the grid" are both examples of a "lack of infrastructure", root cause is either "anti-technology mindset" or "the funds were diverted".

These and other "infrastructure" problems are noting new.

Given that we (theoretically) have a "free-market economy", it's obvious why these pervasive problems are going unsolved: there's no money in providing service.

Put another way: there is enough demand (and available technology) to create "micro-grid" installations today, and whoever can afford to do this probably has enough money to argue the "power across TMK boundary" issue with HELCO.

A more interesting question: how do you count the number of people who have "off-grid" power when a sizeable percentage of these don't dare say anything because their system was built without the benefit of permits? I think it's fair to suggest that we don't really know exactly how many there are, so there's no easy way to calculate the impact...

[snorkle]

Of course there are obstacles to overcome. Look at all the technologies that have moved forward in spite of early problems; Aviation, wireless communications, automobiles, etc. All of these technologies met with intense skepticism from people without imagination.

I don't see how anyone with foresight can state that energy transmission cannot evolve without a 120 year old pole and wire system that is overly expensive, difficult to maintain and vulnerable to disruption. Do you have a horse, or one of those new-fangled auto mobile contraptions to get around? []

BTW, Who ever mentioned HOA's?

[ericlp]

Actually I don't think it would be hard to say if you had 10 homes hooked up each with an 15AMP extension cord connected to a kilowatt monitoring usage. You could tell who the power hungry ones were that had company over and using 1500 watt hair dryers at 9PM kicking on the generators. Than those people would be charged X amount for going over the allotted Power Consumption. And pay extra for gas. If it happened on a regularly than you could cut off that person or make them pay X amount for more solar panels and extra batteries.

[kalakoa]

I'm not arguing that power distribution can't evolve.

I'm simply stating that it isn't.

Most things can be summarized thusly: why change, when it's making "enough" money for the people running the show.

[peteadams]

"BTW, Who ever mentioned HOA's?"

Likely a similar social structure to the suggested small scale energy production co-op. Similar problems are likely. Having been in two HOA's and vowing never again, I find it hard to imagine a lack of issues in getting energy technology established and maintained for the life of the co-op homes. If the co-op doesn't work out and the fall back for the disillusioned is really to get hooked back up to the grid again, then you're begging the question of what we are to do about our current situation of oil/geothermal/other energy sources/HELCO/HEI/grid etc. You are also just an enclave in a grid world and probably a well-to-do one. Knock yourself out. Getting roads paved seems very simple compared an energy development serving a subdivision. Being technically possible is the least of the problems.

I don't disagree that the situation is impeded by the complacency or attitudes of those "running the show." I've outlined my support for a nonprofit public utility agency running the show in another thread, http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16462 .