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I don't see how a home grading system would interfere with renters. With a grading system a house could be mandated to meet a particular grade before being qualified to rent out. So in that matter alone it works opposite what you surmised. As per it not being able to flush out substandard building... again I disagree, by default a portion of the home that inaccessible to inspection becomes and unknown and therefore fails to be verifiable and noted as such with in the grading inspection.
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The current building criteria by default is substandard by virtue of it's own evolution and unrecorded variable and alterations within the evolution. IE... many homes were wired in aluminum when aluminum wire met code yet homes with copper wire were accepted also. Today, the aluminum wired homes have substandard wiring yet will sell next door to a same period built home with copper wire for the same price. That's an ineffective safety protocol. The same can be applied to home that were built with plywood sheer sheathed walls and right next door the same period was used reflective layer cardboard (I don't even recall what that crap was called anymore) sheathing in the same capacity, again ineffective tracking by virtue of a wide variance in the codes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. This is structural safety issue and a substandard home by todays standards that right next to a much safer home. As time progresses these variances and inadequacies will only continue. By actually creating and keeping a record of the homes building methods materials etc. within a grading system, the homes grade can be automatically adjusted in the future as the industries understanding evolves too. We don't have those safeguards in place today.
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its usually the lender that requires the house be up to code. As to valuation of build quality - in a cash deal - thats up to the buyer
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Bullwinkle, houses are seldom up to code unless formaldehyde stinking new.
I have personally witnessed previous remodeling customers cry because they found out their home was wired in aluminum and were torn between selling and feeling guilty for dumping the issue on someone else or shelling the several thousand dollars for a completely new rewiring job. I've seen similar situations regarding structural issues, asbestos insulation (mineral/rock wool), etc etc. People are not aware of what's under the hood and even more unaware of what should be under the hood. Buyer beware is a great slogan if a person is allowed the opportunity to know there is something to be aware of. The current system gives people a giant false sense of security even after having a home inspection done.
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aluminum wire - in my understanding is still approved - just not for new construction inside walls. Good and accepted practice is to terminate the aluminum wire with a copper wire using a copper crimp....
Also true of the aluminum lead in wire - usually #4 or #6 triplex that feeds the 100 amp service - copper in this application is over the top pricey. The aluminum needs to be secured to copper mechanically at the termination as well before attaching it to the lugs in the service panel.
If it vibrates one needs to use stranded not solid wire - all good basic common sense solutions...
by conforming to code - we are able to rectify mistakes - not perfect - but at least its some type of tracking system when accepted designs and specs go wrong
ever hear about the bogus (not approved but marked as grade 8) chinese fasteners that went into steel high rise frames ..... it was years to resolve that one...
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Carol...
Does the current system allow you to pick up a document on a house built in 1990 and find what wall lumber species and grade, dimension, fastener value and method were incorporated or the sheer method and properties involved? Does it cite the wire type, insulation brand and type? I could go on and on with this but I think you get the point and the answer as we both know is... absolutely not. And we both know that sort of record detail will not be available on a house built today 5 years from now. So let's assume a hypothetical product was put in the house today that is later to be found hazardous... who's ever going to know or recall this information? This is why I say that a system should be adopted that establishes and keeps these records on each house across the nation. This is the only way to create a "safer" housing market where a buyer can be aware and act accordingly before a purchase and while the home is within their possession. If such a system were in place, municipalities would no longer be required to inspect as that would be turned over to a privatized certified inspection and engineering industry that would regulate itself by default through reputation and competition. This allows both homeowner builder and professional builder to use the same inspection companies, where standards expectations can be transferred from the current IBC etc. If a home owner elects to build and not contact an inspection company then they forfeit a less expensive whole house inspection and will later have to settle for an lesser costing inspection that results in a lower grading of the house due to inability to gather data. Professional builders would be required to use the inspection companies but if they were to ignore the requirement then their products value will suffer substantially when lacking the expected grading documentation. The grading process would not dismiss current safety requirements it merely incorporates them into the grading system. The required standards level can be used by home buyers to determine the quality of the home they are looking at buying and would be an indicator as to what sort of things might need to be updated or fixed should they elect to buy a home that doesn't meet present standards what ever they may be at that time. In the same stroke it allows people to live in what ever level graded home they desire even ungraded homes that may be the only thing they can afford. Home sales can still occur with homes that have no grading papers too. Bottom line... if you want your house to keep its highest market value, you keep it up to date and verified as such through inspections when updating it. This way fewer buyers get screwed and more affordable houses become available that are lurking between the better homes etc.
One thing remains - land use and health, this is something that can be turned over to the private inspection companies also. Not with respect to establishing the laws but with respect to enforcing them. Those who elect to be an owner builder might be required to at minimum comply with land use regulations and the health sanitation regulations, those should probably be the only legally required actions. The rest becomes a matter of personal choice by virtue of desire and financing. As per protecting the market integrity of a subdivision or neighborhood - Privately based CCR's.
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quote:
Originally posted by Bullwinkle
aluminum wire - in my understanding is still approved - just not for new construction inside walls. Good and accepted practice is to terminate the aluminum wire with a copper wire using a copper crimp....
Also true of the aluminum lead in wire - usually #4 or #6 triplex that feeds the 100 amp service - copper in this application is over the top pricey. The aluminum needs to be secured to copper mechanically at the termination as well before attaching it to the lugs in the service panel.
If it vibrates one needs to use stranded not solid wire - all good basic common sense solutions...
by conforming to code - we are able to rectify mistakes - not perfect - but at least its some type of tracking system when accepted designs and specs go wrong
ever hear about the bogus (not approved but marked as grade 8) chinese fasteners that went into steel high rise frames ..... it was years to resolve that one...
That aluminum wire in the homes I ran across was the worst crap I've seen, very brittle and people were updating the switches and receptacles with inappropriate connectors creating hot spots etc... a damn fire hazard nightmare.
The old asbestos insulation is another sad situation and seldom if ever cited in a sales inspection.
I've seen too many things to know that this current system is ineffective on several levels. Far too loose creating false senses of security and actually promoting health hazards and dangers and on the same stroke too corporate fascist restrictive effectively driving the cost of housing beyond obtainable and buyers into financial servitude. It's these same criminal political corporate relationship control models that have sucked the very life blood out of this nation and brought it to its knees. Makes me sick just thinking about it.
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"If such a system were in place, municipalities would no longer be required to inspect as that would be turned over to a privatized certified inspection and engineering industry that would regulate itself by default through reputation and competition."
Regulate itself? That's just too funny. Hilarious even. Just like the finance industry/Wall Street? After all, the genius Alan Greenspan, to his eternal infamy, said everything would be peachy if Wall Street was just left to self-regulate. So how did that work out?
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http://global.ihs.com/news/temp/standards/ICBO.html
The ICO is the current self regulating body - pretty good bunch of people - one can find all the standards here
code books have always been pricey ....
resale? buyer? you'll want one of these:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...+Occupancy
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quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
quote:
Originally posted by peteadams
"If such a system were in place, municipalities would no longer be required to inspect as that would be turned over to a privatized certified inspection and engineering industry that would regulate itself by default through reputation and competition."
Regulate itself? That's just too funny. Hilarious even. Just like the finance industry/Wall Street? After all, the genius Alan Greenspan, to his eternal infamy, said everything would be peachy if Wall Street was just left to self-regulate. So how did that work out?
Well Pete,
The current system does not regulate itself, it's regulated by the corporate manufacturing heads who sit on the board of the IBC, IEC, etc (The ICC). Hence the industry controls have been hijacked by corporate manufacturing interests. When I cite industry self regulated, I am referring to the trades that actually build, install, repair and inspect their own product on a daily basis.
Originally it began as a basic set of safety checks and was semi self regulated through the likes of the Master Builders Association,structural engineering associations, etc. within the trade with municipalities injecting additional interests and alterations which led to utilizing local versions of codes or pamphlets that were used in conjunction with a particular code book. Then came along the collective code writers such as NBC,IBC which mutated into the heavy alternative corporate controls we see today in the IBC and the likes thereof.
By allowing flexibilities through a grading system the conflict of interest in corporate manufacturing is decreased.
Ultimately it would still be the individual municipalities with the power to set minimum requirements within the grading system for particular applications such as Multi Family, Commercial, Residential, etc. However, the techniques/materials and such would be left to the professions involved.
All in all it removes the full central controls of the manufacturing corporations and spreads them out within the profession.
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