SB 364 - Allowing raw unpasturized milk for sale

[james weatherford]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chunkster

And you might add biased since they tell us on the opening page that they promote raw milk.

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They are informed about something they promote. That is good.

Key point: the legislation introduced by Senator Ruderman is very much a reflection of what is happening nation wide.
For exmapla, at this site, look at the map of states and the raw milk laws in each -- www.farmtoconsumer.org/

[csgray]

I have had both dairy goats and a family cow at certain points in my life. Because I was feeding what I produced to my family I was meticulous about how I handled the livestock and their products. I also knew other people who were far less careful with their livestock and dairy products. I think the possibilities of things going wrong with small producers in a tropical climate is too high to let just anyone who has a goat or cow sell their products to the general public. I do not know what the solution is to let people take responsibility for feeding their families and still protect the general public.

Carol

[okedokey]

Pasteurization is easy even for the small producer. I raised goats for years and pasteurized the milk with a small automatic kettle. We drank the milk and it tasted great. Even with the cleanest methods of milking, it is still easy for organism's to migrate to the milk. Even just in an open container from the walk from the milking stand to the pasteurizer. Seems like a huge step backward to take the risk of sickness, even death, and the risk is greater for kids and the elderly.

[Bullwinkle]

A stretch - one can buy many potentially dangerous substances - gasoline can start your car or bar b q

raw milk - isnt the users choice to accept the risk - just like the person using unleaded (please do use lead free) to start his or her charcoal.

Or bringing that new litter of pit bulls into the world....

?

[Clayton]

I’ve been following this thread out of curiosity because I do have a friend who is trying to get raw milk for health reasons. Personally I do not drink milk, other than oak & hemp, so I do not have a bone in this fight.
I would like to point out a couple of things so the discussion can move on.

First, this bill is written w/o any procedures or guidelines in it, so as Obie said, it does not have a chance to pass this session. The best that it can hope for is a panel or committee to be formed to study the procedures and guidelines in other States. I’d like to know how other States do it and what problems they have had.

Second, the bill does not say anything about selling to the public. It referrers only to consumers. If three or four people want to buy a cow and share the milk, that is not the public.

Arguing about whether or not we should or should not allow selling raw milk is pointless. The question should be can it be done right in Hawaii so that people do not get sick. If it can’t, then this bill should not pass.

[rainyjim]

Of course it CAN be done right, but i'm more curious about if producers WILL do it right before attempting to sell their product to the public at large. Like most everything else this would require a visit from a USDA inspector prior to having the product shipped from the producer to the distributor. This is not hidden or secret information. You can look into how currently regulated milk (pasteurized) is produced and what laws producers must adhere to concerning saftey standards for microorganisms. The pasteurized milk producers folkow a strict set of regulations and there is no reason why raw milk producers can't, wouldn't, or shouldn't be subject to the sane safety procesures and inspections, although - obviously - excluding pasteurization.

Anyways, if you don't like it or don't want to drink it then DON'T! But don't prevent everyone else from getting to drink it because of your fears deluding you into believing you can choose whats best for others / what decisiona they make. Whats next do you want to tell us what color pants to wear?

[kalakoa]

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if producers WILL do it right before attempting to sell their product to the public at large. Like most everything else this would require a visit from a USDA inspector

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...as well as a presumption that both producer and inspector are actually doing their jobs, which somehow is already not happening.

quote:

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don't prevent everyone else from getting to drink it because of your fears deluding you into believing you can choose whats best for others / what decisiona they make.

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We already live in a system of "lowest common denominator" regulation which presumes that people aren't smart enough to make their own decisions and/or are incapable of taking personal responsibility for their actions.

[Clayton]

OK...again. I do not think that distribution to the public at large is possible. I've heard that there was a successful operation in Puna where people could by a share of a cow, therefore entitled to its milk. The DOH found out and shut them down.

Has anyone heard how other States do it?

[kalakoa]

quote:

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Has anyone heard how other States do it?

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Other states also spend taxpayer money to shut down private "illegal" milk operations.

[TomK]

Jim,

"Anyways, if you don't like it or don't want to drink it then DON'T! But don't prevent everyone else from getting to drink it because of your fears deluding you into believing you can choose whats best for others / what decisiona they make. Whats next do you want to tell us what color pants to wear?"

The county council ought to have a different opinion since they have banned GMOs (apart from ones they like). It'll be interesting to see what they do here if anything at all. They can ban raw milk on the assumption it's dangerous, and we all know unpasteurised milk has that potential, but how do they make it consistent with their ban on GMOS, which are not known to be dangerous? Or perhaps they will tell us what color pants to wear, what we can eat or what farmers can grow based on nothing but delusion and fear.

I would hope for a little consistency here, but doubt we'll see any.