Orchid Land road fund misused?

[Tribal fisher]

I live in Skamania County in Washington State and there are no roads in new subdivisions here. I bought 3 lots and had to pay $4,000 to put in a gravel private road and whoever buys the lots on the other side of the road I paid for they get a free road because I already paid for it and if they don't want to pay a dime to maintain it there's nothing I can do about it. I can either let the road become impassible or pay to maintain it and I've had to regravel it every several years out of my own pocket. I grew up in Portland, Oregon and we lived on 94th Ave. and the first block on that street was paved and the rest of the street was all pot holes because if you wanted pavement you had to pay for the portion in front of your house and nobody in the neighborhood wanted to pay.

[loffelkopffl]

yes it has happened in our subdivision,(upper puna) moped driver was killed by a car, luckily we had road insurance, not sure what would have happened to lot owners otherwise

[unknownjulie]

Anyone who is able to attend that meeting, please update the rest of us! I would love to go, but my work schedule and kids do not allow.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by unknownjulie

I have met Wes personally and he seems genuine. I got the postcard, but have yet to investigate. I think Wes was president for several years.

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Try 4 months. Please try to keep your speculations to yourself.

[Guest]

2006-2009. OLCA had a President that OPPOSED any kind of collection activity and had failed to create a workable policy during his term. He had NEVER paid for any paving assessments (obviously opposing paving) for multiple lots owned and the BOD at that time (Wes was VP) thought it was fine.

Last assessment for paving ended in 2009, since then motions to continue with paving were either shot down or abandoned because no one wanted to pay for increases. Many that already have paving to their homes are reluctant to pay for more paving.

The BOD's hands were tied because they could not, in good conscience push to raise fees when barely 60% of the owners were paying. NOT having a collections policy did not help either. It took the BOD almost 1 1/2 yrs. to come up with one, constantly being threatened with lawsuits because of alleged conflicts with the articles of inc, by-laws,and HRS414D. (One director hired his own attorney to look over our documents)). The BOD does not believe 421J applies as Wes does, apparently he is all for foreclosures. No one on the BOD wants that and it is questionable as a matter of law, that it does apply to OL. Those that demonize the BOD have no idea how much they strive to protect the rights of lot owners. They have no idea what our by-laws state or 414D for that matter. They have no idea that 6 people are doing the job of 11 and very few are willing to step up. Someone posted earlier about the release of the membership list: it is clear in HRS 414D as to what had to be done in this case. People have so much to say, yet are rarely informed of the facts, rules and laws applicable to what they are saying.


OL used Chip-Seal surfacing for the first paving increments. The understanding (contractors at that time) was that in order for CS to be reasonably effective, multiple layers would have to be done within 2-3 years. THIS WAS NEVER DONE. If you take a cross-section of any CS road, there will be 1/2"-3/4" of CS and that's it. Normal AC surfaces require a minimumof 2" (according to Glover road works). Given the amount of time the CS has "lasted" under the weight of cement trucks, D9's, etc., had the association completed the CS re-coats, we would not be in this pickle today. Oh well.

So, the argument can be made that further paving after CS was applied was out of rotation as well. In any case, CS is an inferior product for roads and the board had to look forward and mitigate the damage before they lose roads entirely. The section on Pohaku Pl, 35th and Laniuma is a perfect example. Large parts of the road are GONE. There is NO chipseal left and this IS an arterial road. Funds collected for CS repair cannot be used on this road because it cannot be "resurfaced" without extensive ground work. Ordhidland drive is still repairable (simple resurface) and it would be stupid for the BOD to let it waste away like 35th/laniuma only to pay 3x's more to have it repaired. It's called protecting investments and there's one thing I am absolutely sure about - if the Association failed to maintain the CS roads, there would be all kinds accusations of mismanagement BS. I don't envy these Directors, they simply CANNOT WIN.

What Wes and others fail to understand is this: The ONLY reason that the CS roads are as "good" as they are is because a HANDFUL of volunteers, have for YEARS, gone out and fixed potholes. These are roads that EVERYONE in the sub-d uses and if these volunteers did not do this, EVERY CS section in OL would be GONE TODAY. Would Wes and his camp be singing a different tune if this was the case? Don't you think these volunteers (including myself) are getting tired of filling holes 2 miles from my home? My neighbors and I already take care of 1/2 mile of gravel road ourselves. I have yet to see anyone from Wes's group come down and help with road parties on the CS surfaces.(In fact, I am leading a road party THIS Sunday, 10am, corner of 35th/Laniuma, to fill potholes. Those of you bitching and moaning (Yes you WES), come on out,see what it's like to do this work.) Members can't seem to believe road work costs as much as it does. $85/yr is simply not enough for maintenance.

There is no doubt that OL must finish it's paving plan. Those on rotation were promised paving and that should absolutely be fulfilled. I understand that the BOD, after 6+ years of the lack of a collections policy is finally going to start implementing collections. The hurdle is trying to convince 80% of the people who already have paving, to pay for the remaining 20% that don't.
I personally hope this does go to court so the Association can get a court order for EVERYONE to pay and complete the paving. Until then, the BOD (or anyone else for that matter) can push for paving assessments year after year, only to have it shot down. Nothing has stopped Wes (or his buddies) from making a motion at any membership meeting to continue with paving. I have yet to see him do it.

To accuse the Directors of "misappropriation" is defamatory. To publish the home phone numbers of Directors, public domain or not, is classless. I understand he has also attacked, and made public, aspects of a director's PERSONAL life. Shame on you Wes. I don't care what he THINKS people have done, personal lives in a volunteer organization is off limits and it just shows how immature he truly is.

Had the BOD used these funds for anything OTHER than CS resurfacing would be misappropriation and absolutely ILLEGAL. IF these funds are used for paving (or anything else but CS repair), those that have paid into the CS fund, with the expectation that these funds be used for that specific purpose (as ratified), will have every right to sue.

[unknownjulie]

Do 80% of people in Orchidland actually live on pavement? Where did this stat come from?

[Markie]

4dognight I appreciate your comments. Last Monday five of us filled a lot of the potholes at 35th & Laniuma. We didn't fill two at the upper side of 35th as well as some in the really bad part. Two truckloads were not enough! Glad you will be finishing it off. I understand that pouring concrete in the unpaved part is to start next week.

Markie

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Big_Island

WTH!
Last year I spent over 20 hours of my own time repairing my road, filling holes and spreading gravel. I patched holes in the chip seal on Orchidland drive several times and even mowed our corners.
In my opinion I've done more than the association! What did the association do last year for the $165.00 they are extorting from us?

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I too have spent a lot of time and money taking care of 35th/laniuma, battling cane grass, filling holes, grading gravel on a once paved road with my tractor as well as the gravel section on the side road I live on over 2 miles away. I completely understand your frustration. My neighbors and I always vow, "this is the LAST time" we do this crap. We pat each other on the back and go home feeling raped and abused.

However,the BOD has done much more than you think. Get on the BOD and find out. Most people can't stomach sitting through 3+ hour meetings.
It will be a rude awakening but I understand if you can't be bothered with the day to day management of the Association, volunteering your time to stuff 2,500 envelopes, most people in OL just want a say in how the money is spent (even if they don't pay!), forget the dirty work that has to be done to administrate it all and heaven forbid if you are named in a lawsuit just because you serve on the BOD.

If you think $165/yr. (extortion?) is a lot of money to administratively maintain a non-profit org. of this scope and size, AND maintain roads, you are sorely out of touch with reality.

Remember, the maintenance fee is $85/yr. of which around $27 goes to pay for administration (liability insurance, accountant, clerks, stamps, etc.). The other $65 is strictly for CS repair. This means the actual amount of money for road maintenance is only $58. Considering the fact that roughly 65% of lot owners pay, I ask you, can you fix just the frontage of your lot for $37.70/YEAR? ($58x65% compliance rate). The Association is forced to use licensed contractors for ANY work done, how many contractors would maintain the front of YOUR lot for $37.70/year? (It costs $53/FOOT at 20' wide for paving, assuming no ground prep needed. For a 125 foot frontage, that's $6,625 to pave in front of ONE typical lot).

This ($37.70)is the amount the Association has to work with on roads.
There are roughly 42 miles of roads in OL. At 2400 lots x $37.70 = $90,480.

42 miles x 20'wide (very conservative width, some are 60').
That's 4,435,299 square feet / $90,480 = That's .02 per square foot, materials AND labor.
Hell, let's take out the paved roads, at 50% of OL made up of side roads, it goes up to .04 cents/sq foot. Try maintaining ALL of OL's side roads AND chip-seal with a .04/sq.ft budget, materials and labor. The numbers don't lie and anyone can see OL's approved budget to itemize the admin costs. They also publish ALL financials at membership meetings if you want to verify the income.

I challenge ANYONE to do better. If you CAN, PLEASE join the board, the association NEEDS people like you. Me, I'm not THAT crazy.

Average maintenance fee/association dues for sub-d's in Honoulu, $300+ PER MONTH.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by unknownjulie

Do 80% of people in Orchidland actually live on pavement? Where did this stat come from?

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Actually YOU created that stat.
I never said 80% of people live on paved roads.
80% of the PAVING PLAN is completed. That probably serves MORE than 80% of the residents in OL. Point is, if most people drive on mostly paved roads, they are less likely to vote for further paving assessments. This is wrong however what Wes is doing is wrong as well.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Markie

4dognight I appreciate your comments. Last Monday five of us filled a lot of the potholes at 35th & Laniuma. We didn't fill two at the upper side of 35th as well as some in the really bad part. Two truckloads were not enough! Glad you will be finishing it off. I understand that pouring concrete in the unpaved part is to start next week.

Markie

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I wanted to get on it sooner but contrary to what many believe, I do have a life. Thanks for fixing what you could, we'll catch the rest and cross our fingers that it doesn't rain!