Posts: 14,116
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
quote:
if there was an "easy" "convenient" option that even cost some money
Meaning: the convenience of grid-tie, but without the expensive engineering?
I've heard there are unlicensed grid-tie inverters for sale on ebay, and that some people have "gotten away with" using them until/unless the power company finds out, which usually happens right after the meter is upgraded -- one "feature" of the newfangled electronic meters is their ability to detect backfed power even if the overall usage never "goes negative".
Posts: 907
Threads: 12
Joined: Apr 2012
i don't think solar install will ever be 'easy'. it's a dangerous task with serious repercussions if done incorrectly. there's a group of people that know how to do it - they are called electricians.
Posts: 14,116
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
A "toy" standalone system (such as those mentioned above) is very "easy", but may not be "practical" if you want to power something bigger than a laptop.
Color-coding wouldn't be enough, either; a truly "user-friendly" kit would have to use different connectors for everything, thereby making it impossible to connect the "wrong" pieces.
I've actually penciled out a standalone kit; the problem is that it just ends up being "too expensive" compared to a gas generator, because most people don't have an extra few thousand dollars, even if it means no recurring fuel costs. Example:
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/tls/4381771764.html
With a little conservation, this 450W rig is enough to run a small fridge, one of those 12V water pumps, lights, laptop, etc.
Posts: 1,975
Threads: 47
Joined: Jul 2012
UJ, like anything new its complicated at first - obviously all these guys on here are very knowledgable - no worries if you have little background with electrical or solar systems - start small / cheap and work your way through it slowly at a comfortable pace - no need to rush or worry something might go wrong - if you just start small and work out the kinks with your first system - maybe buy pieces used since you know your going against a learning curve - you'll want to buy new - quality equipment after you iron all the kinks out with your first system
Great idea imo to try and use the solar when you can - even if its just a little - good example for kids too imo
I'd suggest having a friend who knows a little on the matter when you make purchase decisions and decide to start hooking the system together
I agree with previous posts to be CAREFUL! These can be dangerous - just like propane grills - but with some common sense onviously no need to win a darwin award
Sorry for odd formating this keyboard is junk
Posts: 1,450
Threads: 109
Joined: Mar 2013
Well, I did one time try and "clean out" a light socket on a lamp I was cleaning- with a damp rag. I'm sure you can imagine the result. I'll stick with HELCO for now, but I'll keep my eyes open to the possibility in the future. Thanks for all the info! I now understand it slightly better at least!
Posts: 2,483
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
For both electricity and water, grid/county supplied is a steal compared to what it costs to provide for yourself off-grid unless you are sufficiently far off the beaten path that the supplier would make you pay for extending their service. If you already have grid power it is not going to be cheaper to go off-grid. However, I read all the time about preppers and how far they will go to ensure that they have what they need when "the grid goes down". Thousands of rounds of ammunition, bales of toilet paper, twinkies and MREs with a shelf life of 20 years, etc. For them the point is security, actual or imagined. I am not a prepper and I am not anticipating TEOTWAWKI, but I think it is a good idea to experiment with various back-up systems. For example I have seen the opinion expressed with regard to catchment tank size that 4,000 gallons of water only costs a couple of hundred dollars so why spend $1,000 extra for a larger tank? Elsewhere I have read frantic posts asking who can deliver water because someone has company visiting and they are almost out, but all water haulers have a long waiting list (duh, the reason YOU need water is because of a drought). That cheap thrill of having when the general public doesn't is what that extra $1,000 is all about. It also happens to be good planning and just darn useful at times. So go ahead and set up a small system as a hobby and for practice.
Posts: 427
Threads: 20
Joined: Nov 2011
It just depends on how far you gotta bring in the power and how much you need. In our case each 100' run is about 2000 + wire. So to get to the middle of out lot it is going to be 5K or there abouts.
Posts: 1,450
Threads: 109
Joined: Mar 2013
If we needed electricity here, then I'd set something up, but we don't. It rains everyday and in an emergency, I could just catch it in buckets and run it through our water filter pitcher. It doesnt get cold or hot- so there's no issue there. I could just charge the phone and kindle with the car charger. (the car battery is basically my "backup system"). I've got Taro growing and can walk to a fishfilled stream. It appears we could live indefinitely at my house without me installing any systems at all... (part of the reason we are in Hawaii)
Posts: 1,727
Threads: 29
Joined: Feb 2006
There are several levels of solar systems. One of the most basic of them is a solar panel(s) that has wires going to a car type battery that saves up the electricity. When you want to use the power, you get it out of the car battery which is 12V DC with an inverter which changes it to 120 volts AC to run most "normal" electrical items. Those are usually plugged directly into the inverter and the inverter is sort of a cube with wires to the battery. This is one of the most basic systems and doesn't run much for very long. You also could use things such as a charge controller to keep from damaging the berry with over or under charging.
The next level up is when you have more and/or bigger panels wired to a controller that then sends the power (via wires) to a battery bank (mostly more batteries that still are similar to a car battery). That battery bank is wired to an inverter that changes the battery power to house power and sends the power to the house's electrical box. From the electrical box on out, it is just like a "normal" house although the electricity is limited and you have to sort of keep track of how much you've used or you'll run out. However, usually with a system this size, you also have a back up generator which will either be turned on or will automatically come on when the stored power in the battery bank gets low.
The easiest system for folks who aren't all that electrical savvy is the grid-tie system. An electrical contractor (technically, all electrical work in Hawaii is done by licensed electricians) installs the solar panels and the inverter on your house. It puts power into the island's electrical grid. There is a meter which keeps track of how much power you put in versus how much power you take out. When you give more than you use, you only pay $20 per month to Helco as a paperwork fee. When you use more than you provide, they send you a bill. No batteries, no back up generator, no muss, no fuss. No keeping track of how much power you have left in the system to use.
So, if you were planning on getting a PV system, I'd suggest a grid tie system. Either that or do an awful lot of study and research first.
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
Posts: 2,483
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
Grid tied and off-grid are completely different animals. You would get grid tied only if you already had grid power and wanted to reduce your power bill. It would not provide any back-up capability. If the grid is down, grid tied solar won't help you. A stand-alone off-grid system requires more components and is much more expensive per watt. Off-grid requires batteries and batteries require a charge controller and a separate inverter. If you have grid power you typically wouldn't spend the extra money for a stand-alone system. You would probably get a generator since it is cheaper to begin with, simpler, and by definition you won't be using it that often so fuel costs are not that big of a deal.
There is a small subset of belt and suspenders tech savvy types who have hybrid systems. I'm not sure what the life-cycle cost benefits are in places that have stable grid power. Keep in mind that the crummiest power in North America and Hawaii is gold plated compared to what there is in some parts of the world. Some places have only a few hours of power a day and you never know when you'll have it, but you almost certainly will have it at some time during the day. You could run a generator but sizing a stand-alone generator is problematic since without batteries (and charge controller and inverter) a generator sized for peak loads is uneconomical all the rest of the time. That pushes you to add solar to cut fuel costs while at the same time counting on the grid so you don't spend so much on a full-sized PV system.
|
