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Return of Superferry?
#21
The Superferry did not go bankrupt because of oil prices. It went bankrupt because the Lingle administration pushed through the project without an Environmental Impact Statement. The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled that the EIS was necessary and suspended ferry operations. Then they went bankrupt. Political blundering not oil prices. And to loffelkopffl, you think Oahu wants Big Island riff raff? Or do you think the ferry only runs one way? You funny, brah. Dey so much more worser dan us, yeah?
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#22
i'm english and there are hovercrafts that run between England and France all the time. they are faster than the ferries, and more stable in turbulent weather. they are also more expensive than the ferries for those reasons. (we also now have a tunnel and i don't know what impact that had.) I am an environmentalist and share their concerns, but as previously stated there is no difference between one form of inter-island travel and another. Price and convenience should have made this work. IMHO it is a shame that it didn't.

#10048;
#10048;
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#23
quote:
Originally posted by birchl

I am an environmentalist and share their concerns, but as previously stated there is no difference between one form of inter-island travel and another.
No, there's a big difference between shipping a couple of dozen cars between Hawaii and Oahu in a trip that takes three days (after letting them bake at the dock for several hours), and taking 200 at a time in a trip that takes a few hours like the superferry. If it was running, guarantee we'd have coqui and little fire ant on all the islands by now. I know it's not as much o a concern for people in Puna because they're already here, but it is a big deal for the rest of the state.

quote:
Originally posted by Lee M-S

Wouldn't it be great to take your car to Oahu and go car or furniture shopping, and bring your purchase home the same day instead of waiting for it to be shipped?

Also, having recently moved to Oahu, I can tell you that furniture at least is better and cheaper on the Big Island.
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#24
quote:
Originally posted by PeterE
The Superferry did not go bankrupt because of oil prices.

Dude, ONE of the reasons, one of several reasons. Even the Superferry company said that the sudden rise of oil was not factored into the business model. This is an article when the Superferry was operating and starting to go under. Also, the three hours from Honolulu to Maui with very rough seas in the winter causing multiple cancellations.
quote:
http://beatofhawaii.com/hawaii-superferry-failin/
Why Hawaii Superferry Is Failing
Hawaii Superferry is not sustainable as a passenger ferry. Its problems are much worse than those the airlines are facing. This is because Superferry’s vessel, the Illikai, uses far more fuel per passenger than does an airplane.
1. Fuel. Superferry is a diesel-fuel hog. It uses up to 7,000 gallons of fuel per voyage. At 29% of passenger capacity, Superferry’s fuel cost may be nearly $120 per passenger. Even at capacity (880 passengers plus vehicles and cargo), their cost is approaching $40 per passenger at today’s fuel prices. By comparison, Hawaiian Airline’s fuel cost per passenger is now about $22. As with the airlines, Superferry did not envision $5 gallon diesel fuel. Thus it does not have a financially viable business model and that will not likely change.

"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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#25
As I recall the Illikai left Hawaii and was put into service in the Great Lakes where it later failed as a passenger ferry between the U.S. and Canada. Last I heard it was perhaps headed to New Zealand. I did tour the vessel in Hilo harbor. It was a beautiful ship.
Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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#26
Here they are in Navy livery - purchased out of bankruptcy for 25 million. Now used as troop carriers. The Navy heavily involved since day one, the ceo ex navy admiral.

They needed a way to move brigades quickly over water - some folks believing it was an inside deal all the way.

http://www.msc.navy.mil/inventory/ships.asp?ship=217
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#27
quote:
Originally posted by birchl

i'm english and there are hovercrafts that run between England and France all the time.

#10048;


Hydrofoils were tried back in 1975, but were discontinued four years later.

From Wiki:

"Boeing launched three Jetfoil 929-100 hydrofoils that were acquired in 1975 for service in the Hawaiian Islands, which was operated by a Honolulu-based operator Seaflite Inc. Seaflite operated 3 Boeing Jetfoils between 1975 to the company's demise in 1979. When the service ended the three hydrofoils were acquired by Far East Hydrofoil (now TurboJET) for service between Hong Kong and Macau."

I rode on one of these from Oahu to Hilo. The seas were so rough crossing the Alenuih#257;h#257; Channel between Maui and the Big Island that the engines stalled and the foils were knocked out from under the hull. It was no fun listening to the captain trying to get the engines started again. The rough seas had to be one of the reasons why the operation closed.



-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
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#28
quote:
Originally posted by Cagary

quote:
Originally posted by birchl

i'm english and there are hovercrafts that run between England and France all the time.

#10048;


Hydrofoils were tried back in 1975, but were discontinued four years later.

From Wiki:

"Boeing launched three Jetfoil 929-100 hydrofoils that were acquired in 1975 for service in the Hawaiian Islands, which was operated by a Honolulu-based operator Seaflite Inc. Seaflite operated 3 Boeing Jetfoils between 1975 to the company's demise in 1979. When the service ended the three hydrofoils were acquired by Far East Hydrofoil (now TurboJET) for service between Hong Kong and Macau."

I rode on one of these from Oahu to Hilo. The seas were so rough crossing the Alenuihaha Channel between Maui and the Big Island that the engines stalled and the foils were knocked out from under the hull. It was no fun listening to the captain trying to get the engines started again. The rough seas had to be one of the reasons why the operation closed.



-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".


-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
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#29
Hydrofoils and hovercraft are totally different types of vehicles.

The hydrofoil raises the bow on wings, so there is still physical contact with the water.

The hovercraft is above the water on a cushion of air.

The Navy ran hydrofoil ships, Pegasus class, from the late 70's to the 90's. They were eventually evaluated as failures due to complex mechanical maintenance and that the foil leading edges were being destroyed by cavitation.

Both the hydrofoil and hovercraft for commercial transportation were surpassed by the double hull catamaran because the catamaran uses less fuel for the payload and provides a more stable ride.

The Superferry came from an Australian company that was already building them for other markets. For near shore interisland, they are fast enough and stable enough, in areas of high density population, to be profitable.

It would take too long to describe the history of the Superferry to where it is now, the two that were built are in Navy service (JHSV), but if you look at the Austal page, both Austal and the Navy have moved on to trimaran, after finding the limits of catamaran.

http://www.austal.com/us/Home.aspx

Doesn't mean there is a snowball's chance in Kau of another private sector superferry in Hawaii. Hawaii is not near shore, not high density population, and the ocean conditions change rapidly around these islands.





"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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#30
What trigger did the Superferry meet (not the ports/harbors) that makes people think it needed an EIS? (folks have been stating this for a few years, but I have yet found one that knows the triggers)

I am including a link to the OEQC HEPA & NEPA triggers procedure, just so that everyone can see why I don't get the statement...

http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared%20Docu...20HEPA.pdf

...(& really if you think of all of the ships & boats in our state waters...& that there are similar ships to the Superferry in other states... well...)

ADDED quote from a 2011 Civil Beat Interview with DOT rep:
"“All user operations in the State’s commercial harbors are subject to environmental review and are covered under DOT Harbors Division environmental review process,” state Department of Transportation spokesman Dan Meisenzahl told Civil Beat in an email.

“The shippers themselves have not done an EA/EIS specifically for their vessels,” he said.

Even before the high court’s 2009 Superferry decision, the state was required to do an EIS for pier-related projects used by two different interisland ferries."

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