BILL 25 Zendo's last hurrah!

[PauHana]

I don't like the sound of this.

Let's shoot the messenger!

Or is it, I don't like the messenger, shoot the messenger?

[csgray]

Sativa,
You posted the following:
"all agricultural and horticultural products, animal feed, baked goods, ice cream and ice cream based desserts and beverages, jams, gift items, food stuffs, clothing, coffee mugs, tee shirts, and other items promoting the farm and agriculture in Hawai`i and value-added agricultural products and production on site. Non-agriculturally related products means those items not connected to farming or the farm operation, such as novelty tee shirts or other clothing, crafts and knick-knacks imported
from other states or countries, etc."

Reading this section you cut and pasted out of the bill it reads to me that it allows farmers to sell farm related related products, including products like T-shirts and coffee mugs that are not made on the farm, but promote the farm. It then defines a whole host of non-agriculturally related products that obviously cannot be sold because they are not ag related.

So the guy in Ka'u whose organic farm stand was mercilessly targeted by his new millionaire neighbor, who built that hideous fake castle, for selling T-shirts and coffee mugs with his coffee farm's name on them, and because he didn't make the basket part of his gift baskets, would have been able to keep selling those things at his farm stand and he would still be in business, if this law had already been in effect.

You object to this why again?

It is darn hard to be a farmer here, especially a small or organic farmer, and you want to limit real farmers in their ability to make a living from their land, and educate tourists about farming in the process, because it might disturb the peace and quiet of non farmers such as yourself and the McMansion guy in Ka'u, who chose to live next to farmers? That seems like a clear cut case of NIMByism to me. Why should non farmers who chose to move into farming areas be able to protect their lifestyle, at the cost of actual farmers making a living? Because that is what you are proposing in your objection to this bill.

I grew up in a farming community, my non farmer parents built a house on 40 acres in the middle of a bunch of real farms so they could have riding horses. We would never have considered it appropriate for us to limit how those farmers and their families made a living off their farms, because it disturbed our lifestyle, we chose to move next to the farms. In some cases making a living included touristy things like barn dances, hay rides, haunted pumpkin patches, apple and cider sales, farm stands, corn mazes, and T-shirt and gift basket sales. Those things were was how our neighbors were able to stay on family farms that they had lived on for generations in a fast changing economy where Earl Butz told farmers to either "get big or get out" as he used his power as the agriculture Secretary to tilt the scales in favor of large corporate farms. The only way these farmers weathered those changes was by getting creative. This bill will allow exactly the same kind of creative solutions for our farmers.

Carol

[Guest]

Sativa quote:
"P.S. Interesting to note only the folks from Wipio Valley are exempt from this bill."

I have to correct myself. Exempting Wipio Valley from this ordinance is an amendment that Zendo submitted today.

[Guest]

Carol, actual farmers are already allowed to apply for agricultural tourism permits. This bill will actually hurt real farmers because Zendo has included a minor category which means anybody and everybody could qualify taking business away from real farmers. Carol, you really would not mind your neighbor's 5,800 customers coming down your private road to buy "gift items" and nick-knacks from China to supplement their income?

I gotta go. So carry on I'll be back. I hope everyone who is interested reads the bill. It will be very helpful in carrying on an intelligent conversation about it and why it was postponed til August 6, 2014.

[Rob Tucker]

5,800 customers works out to average 16 per day.

Anybody remember that old song "ya got trouble" from The Music Man?

[csgray]

Sativa,
The bill clearly states that non farm related items are not allowed, specifying imported items as non farm related. I think you are misstating things to scare people into supporting you.

We had literally thousands of cars use our shared driveway to reach the neighbor's haunted pumpkin patch when I was growing up. That also meant our neighbors could pay their mortgage and property taxes and their kids got to go to college. We thought it was worth it, but we knew that when non farmers move into the country, you have to live with what the farmers have to do to keep farming. That also meant putting up with 24/7 corn and soybean harvest using large, loud machinery and pigs being pastured upwind of our house.

Carol

[Guest]

Rob quote:
"5,800 customers works out to average 16 per day."

Rob, that is a really good point. You should bring that up in testimony on August 6th.

I went back and looked at the bill. I was mistaken that was the earlier version. The amended number is actually 5,000 customers. Below is the current language of the bill:

"Agricultural tourism, minor" means an agricultural tourism operation which shall have a
maximum of five thousand visitors annually, but not to exceed one hundred visitors per week,
that access the activity via passenger vehicles that carry no more than fifteen people per vehicle."

[Guest]

csgray quote:
"I think you are misstating things to scare people into supporting you."

Carol, I don't have to do that legislatively the bill is scary enough.

So you are saying that all the items in the bill like:

"all agricultural and horticultural products, animal feed, baked goods, ice cream and ice cream based desserts and beverages, jams, gift items, food stuffs, clothing, coffee mugs, tee shirts, and other items promoting the farm and agriculture in Hawai`i"

won't be allowed to be imported? That everything that is sold has to be from the farm or a by product of the farm? All the "gift items" have to be made exclusively from what the farm produces?

[snorkle]

What's really wrong with this bill, Sativa?.....Are you and RJ opposed to it for the same reasons you oppose other things?.......
Envy and Jealousy because you didn't think of it yourselves?

What do you have against creating entrepreneurship opportunities in this difficult economy?

Ag tourism? Bad for Ag neighborhoods?....... It's not like they'll be manufacturing Locomotive boilers.

[leilanidude]

Farmers can qualify for agriculture tourism permits as long as 50% of their gross revenues come from farm activities i.e. the food they grow and sell.

If there is an enforcement provision for the above, what is the problem?
No one on a 1/4 acre "farm" can produce enough food to have more than about 1 visitor per day buying other merchandise, could they?