Western Lens vs Native Lens

[dakine]

Mtviewdude wrote:

"Do you honestly believe this crap?.."

Such kind words.

[Wao nahele kane]

What's with all this blowing a giant hole in the flank of the cone? Simply digging a hole in the side of the current lava tube feed far below the cone would reduce the flow towards Pahoa and if worked properly divert it back to its state a few months back. Subtle governing of the flows could keep the lava well above and away from all the subdivisions. Building a solidified lava damn north of the rift rising to the level of the magma lake. Then eventually diverted back to the south flank well away from the homes below. It could be effectively controlled if the will was there to do it. There's no need for smart bombs etc. Perhaps a few charges here and there. BTW... we use charges and cannons in the mountains of the mainland to reduce the chance of avalanches in some areas. There is nothing wrong with protecting ones property or a community protecting their community. I'd bet if the ancient Hawaiians had the ability to alter the course of the lava flows they would saved many a village in the past and I'd also bet they made such attempts on more than one occasion be it from a small finger lobe approaching or what have you.

[snorkle]

God bless the French!
I have been in contact with French authorities, and have arranged for France to donate the Magiot Line to Pahoa.

The Maginot Line (French: Ligne Maginot, IPA: [li#626; ma#658;ino]), named after the French Minister of War André Maginot, was a line of concrete fortifications, obstacles, and weapons installations that France constructed along its borders with Germany during the 1930s.

The Maginot Line didn't work against the German incursion, but unlike Germany, Pele doesn't have a Luftwaffe.

Look for implementation to begin immediately; If you see any people walking around Pahoa wearing a Beret and Speedos; please kiss them on both cheeks. (No, monsieur! not zees cheeks; zeeees cheeks!)

(edit for french accent.)

[opihikao]

quote:

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Originally posted by dakine

Mtviewdude wrote:

"Do you honestly believe this crap?.."

Such kind words.

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What one sees as "crap" is another's belief and opinion. That is why some are kanaka maoli, and some are "dudes" from Mt. View. (To us kanaka maoli, it is Ola'a).

2liveque, sometimes, we must just tolerate the potentially offensive response. No can explain nor share without disdain from some. We have a different way as kanaka maoli, so be it. We respectfully disagree with some. Pau.

The "crap" continues to flow, as it were, from the waha. SMH.



JMO.

[Midnight Rambler]

quote:

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Originally posted by punafish

But if we blow a hole in Kilauea's south flank with a smart bomb, and that action fails to stop the flow coming through Pahoa, then we've also cut off our plan B route because CoC road will now be covered in lava, a self-inflicted wound.

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I assume you mean the south flank of Puu Oo and not Kilauea, since the latter would be even more completely insane. Aside from that, what do you mean "CoC road will now be covered in lava"? I don't know if you've noticed, but it's already covered with lava for about six miles.

[punafish]

Yes, thank you, I did mean Pu'uo'o. (And for the record, the smart bomb wasn't my idea.)

The county is talking about opening up CoC road, please let them know it's covered in lava.

[missydog1]

I read some thoughtful and inspiring posts in this topic. I appreciate them. Thank you liveque for starting a productive discussion. []

I was very moved by the woman's passion at the meeting (sorry I did not catch her name), when she spoke of the important guest and accepting that she goes where she wishes to go, and of acceptance of her wishes.

Regardless that I was not raised in this same tradition, I do respect it, and I respect it now in a way I didn't when I got here. People can and do change perspective with time and exposure to different beliefs, so please let's not say all transplants are the same, I've changed less than some, more than others. We are all different, and the people we meet on our journey affect how we change as well. And different perspectives coming in are not entirely bad. Too much seeing things in black and white forces people to polarize into extreme positions.

She made the point that one can buy a title granted under the systems of men, but Nature does not respect that title. And when you buy title to land near an active rift zone, you cannot count on keeping that land. (We cannot count on keeping any land, but this land is of a most fragile tenure.)

And the land is priced to reflect that fragility. It's a gamble to buy it, who doesn't know that? If you are not a gambler on the lava, then buy on Kaua'i or Maui or buy in Hawi, you know? If you don't want to be affected by the philosophy of people who believe in Pele and respect her, then don't settle in the neighborhood where their roots are deep and then complain about their beliefs.



Kathy

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by KathyH...

I was very moved by the woman's passion at the meeting (sorry I did not catch her name), when she spoke of the important guest and accepting that she goes where she wishes to go, and of acceptance of her wishes....

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I can agree with this statement.

This same type of visitor (important guest) runs through many spiritual practices across the world, and legends/myths, it is not just tied to the Hawaiian culture.

My guess is that the process of preparing for the guest tends to calm and give people something to do instead of just waiting.

[dakine]

If you don't want to be affected by the philosophy of people who believe in Pele and respect her, then don't settle in the neighborhood where their roots are deep and then complain about their beliefs.

amen amen amen!

[missydog1]

A separate thought on the "western lens" and the belief in man's dominion over everything. Western culture as we know it probably started with the Greeks. If you want to count the Old Testament as Western, I'm not sure.

Consider The Odyssey, a founding piece of literature in Western culture. It's the story of a local king/chief who was a leader of men, who had a deep love of his wife and his home land, and all he wanted was to get back to them.

But he offended a god, or more specifically his men offended a god, and a result he was storm tossed, shipwrecked, enslaved, nearly eaten, drowned, and so forth. It was only when he was naked and beaten and didn't have a shred of any power left, that the kindness of strangers took him home, and the gods relented and said to let him be. Then he reclaimed him home with the help of a goddess (Athena).

So there is a founding story of Western culture, which teaches that man has no dominion but for what the gods allow. Then you have the stories of the cause of the Trojan war. It was caused by the hubris of a king who would not make the sacrifice to the gods that was asked, and for that hubris, the entire region suffered a long war that tore it apart.

Then if you examine Celtic pre-Christian culture, again you will find an understanding of the instability of life, and the comedy.

It is later that you find the concept of Empire overruling democracy, and after that you see the Roman Catholic church come into supreme power, such that it commands the say over men's eternal souls, and leads them to think they can buy heaven by opening their purses to building cathedrals, and that God requires monuments. (Cathedrals and old churches are amazing, not knocking what they produced.) All this was at a time when life was very short and death came soon, and the life on earth was about as fragile as land in Pele's domain.

Then if you speak of the ego of science, remember that the first Western scientists were executed for their trouble. They had a long fight before they gained any credibility, and perhaps that has something to do with how "Western Science" seeks to prove its claims in certain ways. You need to consider how the methodology came into being, that is was considered heresy to be a scientist.

Point being, I know it's easier to think of Westernized culture in a certain way, but if you look at the roots, the early Greeks were not so far from the Hawaiians at all in their view. If anything, their gods were more capricious.

Final note: it is the Old Testament that states Yahweh gave Man dominion over the animals and the products of the earth. Christianity started with New Testament, and Jesus never taught that. He taught living a life of few possessions and non-attachment. Yes his later followers turned away from all that and embraced power, but there have also been numerous rebellions along the way against that type of Christianity. I am not a Christian and not a Christian apologist, but let's not confuse the Church (or Churches) with the original doctrine.

Just as we would not (I think) want to confuse the current boondoggle of American politics with the vision of the Founding Fathers.

Human society and history are most complex. We should be wary of lenses and labels.

Kathy