Western Lens vs Native Lens

[TomK]

If it does stand for "just my opinion", I'd like to apologise to opihkao.

[TomK]

At the end of a night shift I always like playing this song while watching the sun rising:

http://youtu.be/Fk0V_GGa2XM

For those of you lucky enough to get a view of the rising sun in the morning you might want to listen to this while watching the sun rise. A mix of Western and Hawaiian native culture. We all rely on the sun rising each day.

[pahoated]

And the sun neither rises or sets, yet that is what we perceive it to be doing. When people talk about reliability based on the sun rising, they are actually saying the Earth's rotation is reliable. This may also be an erroneous perception belief. This belief that the Earth is the center of the solar system has resulted in many murders and set man back by thousands of years. Read about what the Christians did to Hypatia for teaching a heliocentric system. More than a thousand years later, Copernicus was too afraid of the Church to present his evidence for a heliocentric solar system. And we all know what happened to Galileo, although the Catholic church is now on a whitewash campaign claiming they knew all along the solar system was heliocentric and that Galileo was under voluntary house arrest.

Back to Hawaii, the Hawaiian civilization had no problem with a heliocentric solar system, and in fact, the sun is where Ka-Loa, the primary demigod, resides. Ka-Loa is also not very happy lately. There was a solar flare a couple years ago that would have sent this planet back to the stone age:
http://nypost.com/2014/07/24/solar-flare...-ago-nasa/
Solar flare nearly destroyed Earth 2 years ago: NASA

There have been similar solar flares, just not in the direction of the Earth -- yet. Every day is a game of Russian roulette. Spin the chamber, click, live another day.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are different faces on a four-sided die, with the one God as the fourth face, the same one God of Abraham worshipped by all three religions. And yet, they are preparing to wipe each other out because their face is the chosen face. And nobody seems to wonder why Christianity, a religion started in the Middle East, is not a Middle Eastern religion. It is primarily a Caucasian European religion. If you go back to the origin, it was one man, Paul, that brought Christianity to Europe where it became adopted, with a white god and a white son that becomes god on Earth. Isn't this a ridiculous foundation for a religion? There is no foundation for saying these western religions are superior to the Hawaiian religion. At least the Hawaiian religion doesn't advocate global suicide in the name of a monotheistic god.

"We come in peace!" - First thing said by missionaries and extraterrestrials

[Mtviewdude]

quote:

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He claims that the Kings and Queen of Hawai'i are responsible for the loss of Hawaiian culture and it's language. Clearly he has no knowledge of how the aikapu system works or how it only applied to those of the ali'i hierarchy.

Or how our language wasn't in danger until the 1896 (3 years after the illegal overthrow) when the haole created a law (Act 57) which banned Hawaiian language from being taught in the school systems.

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Here is an interesting history of the "ban" of the hawaiian language that has it's sources sited. It's probably written by a haole so feel to dismiss it.

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansov...legal.html

quote:

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Even within the official government-recognized schools, the law clearly does not prohibit Hawaiian language or other languages from being taught. The law merely says the language used for teaching all courses other than language courses shall be English. Indeed, the law explicitly states that language courses can be taught.

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quote:

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See Albert J. Schutz, "The Voices of Eden: A History of Hawaiian Language Studies," (Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 1994). It was an official policy of the Kingdom's schools to promote English-language instruction, because learning English opened the door to the outside world both commercially and culturally. Many ethnic Hawaiian families preferred English-language schools to Hawaiian language schools. As first-gereration Asian immigrants began producing children who reached school age, especially after the overthrow and during the Territorial period, very few of them showed any interest in Hawaiian language and were glad to have their children educated through the medium of English. During the Territorial period, Hawaiian language was taught as a second language in the public schools, and enrollments in Hawaiian were greater than enrollments in Japanese. Hawaiian language studies at the University of Hawai'i go as far back as the 1920s. By contrast, Kamehameha School (exclusively for ethnic Hawaiian children by a policy decision of its board of trustees) prohibited Hawaiian language from 1887 up to about 1923, when the school began teaching Hawaiian as a second language. And here it's worthwhile to note that Kamehameha was teaching Hawaiian as a second language at a time when today's sovereignty activists like to say that the 1896 English-language law would ban Hawaiian language in any school, public or private.

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So let me ask you a couple of questions in the first place...

Who first banned Hawaiian religion and destroyed most of the idols?

Who abolished the Kapu System?

Who first outlawed the Hula?

Who made speaking English a prerequisite for getting a job in the Kingdom of Hawaii Government?

Care to answer these?

[snorkle]

More questions;
Who proclaimed "Manifest Destiny"(a "God given" right for white Americans to take over territories at the expense of "Heathen" populations?)

Who mounted what was in essence an "American Jihad"; with no guilt or shame, practicing genocide on other cultures?


edit;typo

[Mtviewdude]

quote:

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Originally posted by snorkle

More questions;
Who proclaimed "Manifest Destiny"(a "God given" right for white Americans to take over territories at the expense of "Heathen" populations?)

Who mounted what was in essence an "American Jihad"; with no guilt or shame, practicing genocide on other cultures?


edit;typo

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America has done bad evil stuff, and is still doing it. What's your point? Care to answer my questions?

The funny point is everyone is trying to decry the "evil white man" when it happens in every face and culture. Kamemehameha wasn't using his version of "manifest destiny" we he chose to unite the Hawaiian Islands? What happened to the original settles of Hawaii before the Polynesians came by?

We are all made of the same thing and have the same capacity at doing bad things. That is why I laugh when I see these Western Lens vs Native lens comparison.

I answered your questions, care to answer mine.

[Guest]

When you build in natural hazard zones, you build small. You build expendable. You build in respect to the environment that doesn't really want you there and may sweep you aside at any time. People who build outsized monuments to their ego in natural hazard zones, then expect the state to spend vast sums of other people's money protecting their 'property' are worse than delusional.

[Noeau]

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Here is an interesting history of the "ban" of the hawaiian language that has it's sources sited. It's probably written by a haole so feel to dismiss it.

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansov...legal.html

quote:

---

Even within the official government-recognized schools, the law clearly does not prohibit Hawaiian language or other languages from being taught. The law merely says the language used for teaching all courses other than language courses shall be English. Indeed, the law explicitly states that language courses can be taught.

---

quote:

---

See Albert J. Schutz, "The Voices of Eden: A History of Hawaiian Language Studies," (Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 1994). It was an official policy of the Kingdom's schools to promote English-language instruction, because learning English opened the door to the outside world both commercially and culturally. Many ethnic Hawaiian families preferred English-language schools to Hawaiian language schools. As first-gereration Asian immigrants began producing children who reached school age, especially after the overthrow and during the Territorial period, very few of them showed any interest in Hawaiian language and were glad to have their children educated through the medium of English. During the Territorial period, Hawaiian language was taught as a second language in the public schools, and enrollments in Hawaiian were greater than enrollments in Japanese. Hawaiian language studies at the University of Hawai'i go as far back as the 1920s. By contrast, Kamehameha School (exclusively for ethnic Hawaiian children by a policy decision of its board of trustees) prohibited Hawaiian language from 1887 up to about 1923, when the school began teaching Hawaiian as a second language. And here it's worthwhile to note that Kamehameha was teaching Hawaiian as a second language at a time when today's sovereignty activists like to say that the 1896 English-language law would ban Hawaiian language in any school, public or private. [/quote]

So let me ask you a couple of questions in the first place...

Who first banned Hawaiian religion and destroyed most of the idols?

Who abolished the Kapu System?

Who first outlawed the Hula?

Who made speaking English a prerequisite for getting a job in the Kingdom of Hawaii Government?

Care to answer these?
[/quote]

You are using Ken Conklin as a source? Might want to do some further research and take the time to check the credibility of your sources. In fact you might even want to follow up my advice on learning the Hawaiian language and checking out Hawaiian history written by Hawaiians themselves. You will find the answers to all of your questions there
Although I do understand that learning the language of Hawaii might be a challenge for some malihini. Especially since our language requires one to see the world through what this thread deems as the native lens. So to make life easier for you, here are some credible English sources written by Hawaiians.

1. Osorio, Jon Kamakawiwoole. Dismembering Lahui: A History of the Hawaiian Nation to 1887. University of Hawaii Press, 2002.

2. Kauanui, J. Kehaulani, et al. Hawaiian blood: colonialism and the politics of sovereignty and indigeneity. Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2008.

3. Kame'eleihiwa, Lilikala;. Native land and foreign desires. Bishop Museum Press, 1992.

4. Trask, Haunani-Kay, and Le Ly Hayslip. From a Native Daughter (Rev. ed.). University of Hawai’i Press, 1999.

5. Sai, David Keanu. "American occupation of the Hawaiian State: A century unchecked." Haw. JL & Pol. 1 (2004): 46.

6. McGregor, Davianna Pomaikai. "Na Kua’aina." Living Hawaiian Culture (2007).

7. Silva, Noenoe K. Aloha betrayed: Native Hawaiian resistance to American colonialism. Duke University Press, 2004.

Happy researching!

[opihikao]

Noeau said: You are using Ken Conklin as a source?

ROTFLMAO!

Good luck with this one, Noeau. You're spot on. Mahalo.



Yes, Mr. Tom and Kathy, JMO is just my opinion, lol.

JMO.

[Green]

If or when the lava crosses HWY130 and cuts off thousands of people in Puna I predict then the county will take drastic action such a munitions to divert the flow. This of course will not make some citizens with cultural sensibilities happy, but I also predict even the culturally sensitive one's won't be protesting much after they have been cut off from the rest of Hawaii and essential services, like food, medical, work, etc.