Will the new flow put an end to more geothermal?

[snorkle]

Dang OnoOno; the materials and products would come from the same place they do now. I'm talking about the future, not the dark ages.

[OnoOno]

Profit makes the world go around. No profit, no production, innovation etc. The quest for profit brings about the best in quality and the lowest in cost. If your beloved HELCO had a competitor working for profit both, you'd have better juice for less bread.

quote:

---

Originally posted by punalvr

I just do not think that basics, such as electricity, water and food, should be so expensive, or taxed, or for profit.
I believe on self sustainability. I made an investment of about 20 grand on my solar system.
Batteries last about eight years. It has been 15 years.
So 250 a month on Helco X 12mths X 15 years= 45.000. and you are still dependent.
And I am not a Socialist, neither a Capitalist anymore..


punalvr

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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!

[snorkle]

You're exactly right Ono. That's why we need to change the law that prohibits anyone but HELCO from transmitting power across a TMK.

That's exactly what I'm ranting about. HELCO has no competition and is protected by law from getting any.

[leilanidude]

How is a Micro grid "off the grid"? I'm just against centralized power. Think of it as centralized power failure. Tens of thousands without power here recently. Did you notice?

Explain to me, how all these people that would be on micro-grids in a disaster, would have been able to pay for their repairs, themselves, in a timely manner, like HELCO did? Most of these "sustainable" people you talk about, have but a dime to rub between their butt cheeks. They would still be without power today after a large storm such as Iselle.

[lavarat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by punalvr

I just do not think that basics, such as electricity, water and food, should be so expensive, or taxed, or for profit.
I believe on self sustainability. I made an investment of about 20 grand on my solar system.
Batteries last about eight years. It has been 15 years.
So 250 a month on Helco X 12mths X 15 years= 45.000. and you are still dependent.
And I am not a Socialist, neither a Capitalist anymore..

If you had bought $20k of HE stock 15 years ago at $15 a share, you would now have $35K in stock at $26 a share and collected $15K in dividends at 5% per year for a total of $50K. But you would have to pay capital gains taxes on the stock when you sell and also dividend taxes. So probably the costs either way are comparable, except that you will have to pay replacement costs pretty soon.


punalvr

---

[punalvr]

I am totally diversified. First rule. I am still sticking to my ways! I believe some time soon, before this planet blows, that we all did our best to keep it clean, and non-pollutant.
We owe it to our kids and future generations.
Maybe solar is a bit more expensive, I do not know where we are heading, but is getting cheaper. But, I am happy to see no electric posts; wires crossing in zig zag manners throughout my neighborhood. And no repairs, waiting for.


punalvr

[OnoOno]

By far, the most expensive electricity is the electricity you don't have, for the opportunity costs brought about by not having power to run the machines of civilized life are astronomical. Compared to NOT having juice, Helco is dirt-cheap (as lots of people recently experienced).

[snorkle]

First of all; dude,
If a micro grid goes down, possibly hundreds would be without power, not tens of thousands. The repair costs would be proportional, and paid for by the consumer through the provider. Just like it is now. I'm not talking about just hippies being on a microgrid(even though there would be a diversified customer base, just like there is now) I'm talking about anyone who wanted to hook up; like you.

OnoOno,
I've live both on and off the grid and would disagree. You use the power that you have, period.

My old pal Clem used to say; "Dang orville, We've been haulin our hay with this mule like it's been done for years. She's a great Mule; Use her everyday like it's been done fer years. Don't need them new fangled automobile inventions to haul our crop."

OnoOno also asks;
"What is it that, in your opinion, makes the grid obsolete?"

snorkle responds with a smirk;
It's ugly, It loses 30% of the power it delivers (but hey, the customers pay for it), It's vulnerable to damage by storms(ya think?), wind, car wrecks. It's vulnerable to terrorism (yes indeed; think about it) It needs to be constantly replaced and maintained, a failure at one point can send the whole system down. And, oh yeah......It's 200 year old technology!

In your opinion; What makes the mule obsolete for hauling freight?

edit; typo

[OnoOno]

Yes, you use the power you have, and DON'T use the power you don't have, to keep your food preserved, the lights on, the store open, the gas pumps pumping etc., etc., etc., I know I am a "big-picture" thinker, and not everyone is, but you seem to think "micro", as if your house, and a few other houses are all the consumers that exists - no factories, plants, mills, foundries, retail operations, warehouses etc.

I am not against small-scale generation/distribution. In fact a guy in the warehouse next to mine works with a company that builds and installs fuel cells that use hydrogen, as I recall. The same technology that power space missions. In other places, such as Alaska, and remote areas in Canada, they use old turbine engines to generate juice and pump natural gas. It can be done, but you are really substituting many duplicated small grids for one larger grid that is capable of load balancing etc., to cover for a generator that goes bad, a boiler that blows a tube, turbine that loses a blade etc.

When they build New Pahoa, why don't you propose and lead the effort to create your own micro-grid powering the new community. A couple of GE LM1500s (Rebuilt industrial versions of the J79 turbojets from F4 Phantoms and F104s) should get you started. They can be configured to run either on liquid or gaseous fuels by changing fuel nozzles. Perhaps you could bring back some sugar cane production to produce ethanol to run the gas turbines. Contact S & S Turbines out of Canada.

Start with your planning now, and make regular reports on your progress.

quote:

---

Originally posted by snorkle


OnoOno,
I've live both on and off the grid and would disagree. You use the power that you have, period.

My old pal Clem used to say; "Dang orville, We've been haulin our hay with this mule like it's been done for years. She's a great Mule; Use her everyday like it's been done fer years. Don't need them new fangled automobile inventions to haul our crop."

OnoOno also asks;
"What is it that, in your opinion, makes the grid obsolete?"

snorkle responds with a smirk;
It's ugly, It loses 30% of the power it delivers (but hey, the customers pay for it), It's vulnerable to damage by storms(ya think?), wind, car wrecks. It's vulnerable to terrorism (yes indeed; think about it) It needs to be constantly replaced and maintained, a failure at one point can send the whole system down. And, oh yeah......It's 200 year old technology!

---

Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!

[csgray]

OnoOno:"I am not against small-scale generation/distribution. In fact a guy in the warehouse next to mine works with a company that builds and installs fuel cells that use hydrogen, as I recall"

Someone is doing this in Hawaii? On the Big Island? Where?

Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb