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csgray: So the state and county has recently spent millions on roads in those areas, development of multi million dollar resorts and golf course retirement communities continues, with all the ifrastructure that goes with it. So to quote geochem "Why should the State and County taxpayers subsidize/indemnify against predictable losses?"
Sometime take a look at what insurance costs, and what property taxes are, for the Kona side. Try to be sitting down when you do so.
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quote:
Originally posted by csgray
[quote]Originally posted by geochem
[quote]Originally posted by SBango
Let's not rebuild Hilo after a lava flow from Mauna Loa wipes it out either. Good thinking.
All those resorts in Kona are downhill from Holualoa, which is way overdue and will be a FAST flow when it finally opens up, some thing with Mauna Loa for South Kona. They have the illusion of being any safer than Puna from volcanic activity, and they will have far less warning of the danger, due to the steepness of the terrain.
If a lava flow ever endangers Hilo or Kona the state will try and divert the flow in any means possible. Even with the cultutal beliefs of Pele they would still try and divert. Pahoa and lower Puna was not worth saving as much as the larger towns would be. Just my opinion is all I could be wrong and I mean no disrespect to cultural beliefs or to "Pele". In the end it seems to be all about the money.
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
I've never been to Hana, Maui, ...
Interesting for sure.
Hana has an airstrip.
Not just an airstrip, but an FAA subsidized airport with scheduled air service.
So does Kalaupapa on Molokai. Plus it has the essential air service subsidy. And it's population is 122.
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I have a better idea.
Why don't people just give up on, or at least moderate, the idea of living on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcanoes - especially when it is involved in a 30-year long "spew", and when there is evidence that an even bigger one is starting to clear her pipes for another performance after a long period of quietude. quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
Carol says;
"It is now very clear that the solution to meeting needs in lower Puna is to allow small nimble, low infrastructure businesses to meet the needs of the people."
Snorkle says, enthusiastically;
Nailed it!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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quote:
Originally posted by freespirit
quote:
Originally posted by csgray
[quote]Originally posted by geochem
[quote]Originally posted by SBango
Let's not rebuild Hilo after a lava flow from Mauna Loa wipes it out either. Good thinking.
All those resorts in Kona are downhill from Holualoa, which is way overdue and will be a FAST flow when it finally opens up, some thing with Mauna Loa for South Kona. They have the illusion of being any safer than Puna from volcanic activity, and they will have far less warning of the danger, due to the steepness of the terrain.
If a lava flow ever endangers Hilo or Kona the state will try and divert the flow in any means possible. Even with the cultutal beliefs of Pele they would still try and divert. Pahoa and lower Puna was not worth saving as much as the larger towns would be. Just my opinion is all I could be wrong and I mean no disrespect to cultural beliefs or to "Pele". In the end it seems to be all about the money.
Just so I can respond to both comments at the same time:
csgray: it's Hualalai; it's not overdue for an eruption - it erupts quite infrequently (on the human time scale) and, while it is true that the last eruption produced quite fluid lavas, that has by no means been it's "typical" eruptive style. Mauna Loa is the far greater threat on the Kona side - where the equally ill-conceived subdivision HOVE was permitted and where I would likewise recommend minimum efforts to rebuild and restore. The only saving grace there is that most of South Kona is still relatively sparsely populated and used for agriculture - although the disruption of a lava flow cutting the Mamalahoa Hwy will be at least as great, if not greater, than lava cutting Hwy 130.
freespirit: If Hilo or Kailua Kona are threatened by lava flows, the only effort at diversion might be for protection of essential facilities - Hilo Hospital, for example. Aside from those, lava will be allowed to go where it will - there is a Lava Flow Mitigation Plan, developed some years ago, that has stated that policy.
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OnoOno asks;
"Why don't people just give up on, or at least moderate, the idea of living on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcano"
snork answers with confidence;
That's easy; for the same reason people don't give up on living on the San Andreas Fault, Ocean's edge, Tornado alley, or Detroit. OK, well, maybe Detroit. The reason is they like it.
As far as "moderate", I think that's what CSgray suggested;
"It is now very clear that the solution to meeting needs in lower Puna is to allow small nimble, low infrastructure businesses to meet the needs of the people."
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the solution to meeting needs in lower Puna is to allow small nimble, low infrastructure businesses
This has been true for a very long time -- where the PCDP might almost make sense between Pahoa and Keaau, it really isn't a good fit for Kalapana and the Red Road.
Imagine ... a County "mobile office" where you can pay property taxes and file papers, maybe even renew your registration. It's parked in front of your community center (or by the mailboxes, or wherever works) on the first and third Tuesdays as it travels up and down the Red Road...
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All the areas you cite are under far less threat than living on the flanks of an active volcano, on a square-mile by square-mile basis, AND, they serve vital purposes and needs to our society - to wit, agricultural and commercial etc. Puna, OTOH, is irrelevant to the greater USA, a curiosity, perhaps, but nothing more.
An apples to apples comparison would be people insisting on building in a known avalanche pathway, or arroyo. What you guys are contemplating, is like trying to figure out how to ski in an avalanche-prone, snow-filled bowl, and how to get rescued, on other folks' dime, when the inevitable happens.
It's a VOLCANO - live on the side of some other mountain, or.....!!!
quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
OnoOno asks;
"Why don't people just give up on, or at least moderate, the idea of living on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcano"
snork answers with confidence;
That's easy; for the same reason people don't give up on living on the San Andreas Fault, Ocean's edge, Tornado alley, or Detroit. OK, well, maybe Detroit. The reason is they like it.
As far as "moderate", I think that's what CSgray suggested;
"It is now very clear that the solution to meeting needs in lower Puna is to allow small nimble, low infrastructure businesses to meet the needs of the people."
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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quote:
freespirit: If Hilo or Kailua Kona are threatened by lava flows, the only effort at diversion might be for protection of essential facilities - Hilo Hospital, for example. Aside from those, lava will be allowed to go where it will - there is a Lava Flow Mitigation Plan, developed some years ago, that has stated that policy.
Ok thank you - the prior flows toward Hilo must have been headed for some essentail facilites in 1935, 1942 and 1981.
Explosives were first suggested as a means to divert lava flows threatening Hilo, Hawaii during the eruption of 1881. They were first used in 1935, without significant success, when the Army Air Force bombed an active pahoehoe channel and tube system on Mauna Loa’s north flank. Channel walls of a Mauna Loa flow were also bombed in 1942, but again there were no significant effects. The locations of the 1935 and 1942 bomb impact areas were determined and are shown for the first time, and the bombing effects are documented. Three days after the 1942 bombing the spatter cone surrounding the principal vent partially collapsed by natural processes, and caused the main flow advancing on Hilo to cease movement. This suggested that spatter cones might be a suitable target for future lava diversion attempts.
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quote:
Originally posted by OnoOno
I have a better idea.
Why don't people just give up on, or at least moderate, the idea of living on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcanoes - especially when it is involved in a 30-year long "spew", and when there is evidence that an even bigger one is starting to clear her pipes for another performance after a long period of quietude. quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
Carol says;
"It is now very clear that the solution to meeting needs in lower Puna is to allow small nimble, low infrastructure businesses to meet the needs of the people."
Snorkle says, enthusiastically;
Nailed it!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
You've already said you don't live here and have no interest in living here, in fact the only thing that interests you is the volcanic eruption, so why do you think the good people who are trying to deal with the current situation, many of whom were actually born here, or moved here before Pu'u O'o erupted, want unsolicited advice from a person who has no personal stake in the situation?
You said you were in So. Cal. so when the San Andreas fault inevitably breaks loose I am sure you and your community will want help picking up the pieces. Why don't all of you living on that fault, which comes complete with intense drought, wildfires, flooding if you get a little rain, and mudslides from overbuilding, just move to off the fault, instead of expecting everyone else to pay to rebuild your infrastructure? See how that works?
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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