Building a new town in South Puna

[Andrew]

Does anyone know about the propane distribution tank right beside Paul's? Is it in service, can I buy propane there? If so who runs it, is it Paul's?

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Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times".

[OnoOno]

I knew why you were so adamant to know where the guy in the warehouse next door was, so you could employ your childish geographic censorship "Purity test.

FYI, I don't live anywhere near the San Andreas fault, but the area I live in makes a great contribution to the USA. Aviation, entertainment, world commerce, technology etc.,

Also, I am not referring to the immediate situation, but a change in mindset post cataclysm, that further adventures into living on the side of a hyper-active volcano might not be such a good idea after all. My taxes, no doubt will be used, in some measure, in the efforts, so I have a voice in the issue, failure of meeting your geographic purity test notwithstanding.

You can rest assured that if there is a problem here, we will take care of it. We have virtually unlimited resources. When the I-10 collapsed, it was rebuilt in record time - NOT Hawaii time.

In closing, I offer my apologies for not noting earlier your armband.

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

quote:

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Originally posted by OnoOno

I have a better idea.

Why don't people just give up on, or at least moderate, the idea of living on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcanoes - especially when it is involved in a 30-year long "spew", and when there is evidence that an even bigger one is starting to clear her pipes for another performance after a long period of quietude.

quote:

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Originally posted by snorkle

Carol says;
"It is now very clear that the solution to meeting needs in lower Puna is to allow small nimble, low infrastructure businesses to meet the needs of the people."

Snorkle says, enthusiastically;
Nailed it!

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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!

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You've already said you don't live here and have no interest in living here, in fact the only thing that interests you is the volcanic eruption, so why do you think the good people who are trying to deal with the current situation, many of whom were actually born here, or moved here before Pu'u O'o erupted, want unsolicited advice from a person who has no personal stake in the situation?

You said you were in So. Cal. so when the San Andreas fault inevitably breaks loose I am sure you and your community will want help picking up the pieces. Why don't all of you living on that fault, which comes complete with intense drought, wildfires, flooding if you get a little rain, and mudslides from overbuilding, just move to off the fault, instead of expecting everyone else to pay to rebuild your infrastructure? See how that works?

Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb

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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!

[Hotzcatz]

I'm not sure if Pahoa or any other settlement in lower Puna has enough momentum as a town to rebuild itself. It's just within the past several decades that Pahoa village has started to build up and become a "town". Even with the new shops and such, it's still sparsely settled as far as population density goes. It's only been lately that the new Long's, Malama Market and Burger King, etc., have arrived in the area.

A lot of the increase in population has been within the past decade, so those folks will not have dug in strong roots in the area yet. I suspect many of them would relocate if they could but a lot of their problems in relocating will be due to using up their available resources to move and build in Puna in the first place. I don't know what the lava will do to the home values, but I don't think it is going to improve them any. Which means the folks there have invested their savings into building homes and now no longer have the resources to do it again nor the ability to sell their existing homes to recoup their expenditures.

Depending on why folks choose to live in Puna will probably color their response to being isolated in Puna. If they chose to live there to be self sustainable and be off on their own, then they will probably stay put as long as they can and only occasionally venture out to get needed supplies. A weekly supply barge to and from Hilo might be enough to keep them going. However, if they chose to live in Puna due to it's lower costs, then those folks will be relocating as fast as they are able since the costs are going to go up due to it's isolation. Especially if they have to commute to Hilo for work.

I doubt there will be another "town" in lower Puna, or even Pahoa relocated. At least for quite some time. A small village might show up, although it will be at risk of lava so something mobile might be best, but with a dwindling population, there's no real reason to build bigger. If you study demographics, you can see how much population base each type of business requires. As it gets harder to get in and out of Puna, there's going to be a lot of folks who relocate to somewhere else because they have to. Some folks have to have a job to support themselves. What jobs will be left in Puna? With a two hour commute time as well as the new commute costs, how many of them will be able to afford to stay?

There also doesn't seem to be much thought on the idea of the continuance of lava after it crosses the highway and perhaps after it reaches the ocean. Traditionally, the lava has been a years long event and not just a one instance type of disaster. It took over half a decade for most of Kalapana to be covered over, didn't it? This is just the beginning.

Does anyone have any estimates of the drop in population of lower Puna if the highway does get cut off all the way to the ocean?

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"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson

[Erlinda]

I just returned from a visit to Christchurch New Zealand whose downtown was devastated by severe earthquakes a few years ago. Instead of rebuilding the downtown in a more traditional way, they've used shipping containers to create a "mall" with shops and services. Perhaps an idea for the "new" Pahoa. Check them out! http://www.restart.org.nz/

[alaskyn66]

A mobile town such as Erlinda's link describes is most likely the best answer .... along with a boat harbor at Isaac Hale park that could be built by the Army Corp of Engineers,...breakwall... floating docks... etc..

[csgray]

OnoOno,
Lots of people post here from all over the world, they just usually don't come on here and tell the people living here what to do with their lives in the middle of a slow moving crisis, especially that they should not even live here. They are respectful of the fact that they are intruding themselves into other people's lives, usually because they feel some sense of personal connection to the place or people here. But you already said nothing about Puna interests you except the volcano, so why do you think we can't live without your input during this crisis? I guess I don't understand the fascination with a community you have no desire to ever be a part of, it just feels like morbid curiosity to me to involve yourself in someone else's disaster.

If you were someone like wakan who used to live here, or the various people who have visited here and feel connected to the people and place, or those who plan to move to the Big Island, your presence on Punaweb would make sense, but you are none of those, yet suddenly here you are posting all kinds of advice and opinions directed at the people who do live here right now. You even dismissed us us too insignificant to matter while "the area I live in makes a great contribution to the USA." How does coming on here and making that kind of statement do anything positive for anything but your ego?

It is not your zip code I object to, but your arrogant "I know how you people in Puna should live your lives and now I'm going to tell you" attitude. Sort of like when a stranger starts offering unsolicited advice about a situation they have only the vaguest understanding of.

I'm done here, I have to go clean out our spare room for a lava refugee who needs a place to live since the lava is going to come between her job and her fully paid for home.


Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb

[OnoOno]

I've been respectful all along. You have been pushy and intrusive,and I knew what you were doing and why.

It is a free country, and I am free to offer my opinions whenever, and wherever I want. People do the same sort of things all over America, so you are not exempt even though you live in Puna. For example, people comment on living on the beach in coastal areas prone to Hurricanes etc., and nobody tells you that you are not free to opine, but then, they are not wearing your Official Censor armband.

I offered an opinion, nothing more. It is evident that the volcanic activity is NOT finished, and the idea that moving onto or continuing to live on a hyperactive volcano might bear re-thinking.

I have noted in life, also, that in some cases, that the people directly involved in things are so close to the issue they can't see it clearly. It is obvious that something has to change, and who knows, the idea may come from someone NOT in your zip code - like a zip code where things actually get done - not languished-over for decades until they die of old age.

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

OnoOno,
Lots of people post here from all over the world, they just usually don't come on here and tell the people living here what to do with their lives in the middle of a slow moving crisis, especially that they should not even live here. They are respectful of the fact that they are intruding themselves into other people's lives, usually because they feel some sense of personal connection to the place or people here. But you already said nothing about Puna interests you except the volcano, so why do you think we can't live without your input during this crisis? I guess I don't understand the fascination with a community you have no desire to ever be a part of, it just feels like morbid curiosity to me to involve yourself in someone else's disaster.

If you were someone like wakan who used to live here, or the various people who have visited here and feel connected to the people and place, or those who plan to move to the Big Island, your presence on Punaweb would make sense, but you are none of those, yet suddenly here you are posting all kinds of advice and opinions directed at the people who do live here right now. You even dismissed us us too insignificant to matter while "the area I live in makes a great contribution to the USA." How does coming on here and making that kind of statement do anything positive for anything but your ego?

It is not your zip code I object to, but your arrogant "I know how you people in Puna should live your lives and now I'm going to tell you" attitude. Sort of like when a stranger starts offering unsolicited advice about a situation they have only the vaguest understanding of.

I'm done here, I have to go clean out our spare room for a lava refugee who needs a place to live since the lava is going to come between her job and her fully paid for home.


Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb

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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!

[SBH]

Oh no Ono no pono

[Tink]

A new "town" and floating dock or means of bulk transport such as airstrip minimum of 1200 feet in length would be needed if completely cut off. Human culture needs a common place for interaction trading goods and talking story and usually is in close proximity to supply point. The Town Merchants would need a good 1 ton truck, and a 3 axle 21,000 GVW flat deck trailer to use in the event of relocating due to another advance. Each merchant would have his cluster of inventory containers with a common "showroom" connecting them together for his "store". Lava says move, leave or dis-assemble "showroom", trailer off containers to the next "safe" zone. Medical could be Military MASH containers connected with containers set up as offices, exam rooms, etc. Water and sanitation could be containerized as well, using vacuum technology for community and restaurant waste and gravity/pump for water. Electrical needs could be photovoltaic on the roofs of the containers or grid tie if available.

Community begins with Aloha

[kalakoa]

Human culture needs a common place for interaction trading goods and talking story

Absolutely -- just don't put it anywhere near my house, because I don't want the noise/traffic/crime that is always included wherever people gather.

Do be sure to build a nice paved road so I can drive there, though.