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property tax revisions
#1
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...-revisions

BIll 292: increase basic exemption to $60K, validate "homeowner" claims with State Tax.

This caught my eye:

A study several years ago showed the county spent about $1,300 per parcel per year on county services

Anyone know where I can find this "study"? I suspect that these funds are not evenly distributed...
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#2
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa

http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...-revisions
I suspect that these funds are not evenly distributed...


And how.
That "$1,300" would be an average.
Given that South Hilo District has fewer people than Puna, and many more miles of County roads and streets, as well as much more park area, and water service, the "average" for the County would be higher than Puna and lower than Hilo.
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#3
Just for fun...

Fern Acres lots are 100' wide, so each mile of road there has about 104 lots or $135200.

Hawaiian Acres has about 4000 lots, or $5.2M.

Fortunately for us taxpayers, those County "services" are only a short drive away!
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#4
For those who think County roads get treated so well --
My County road is driven daily by tourists and tour buses as well as resident tourists and four miles worth of residents. Hasn't had any road surface work done in the seven years I've lived on it, and wasn't in great shape when I got here. It finally got a restriping after seven years and the stripe was totally gone.

It has no shoulder, no room for bikes or pedestrians to use it, none of those things people complain the private roads lack.

The turn out onto the highway is dangerous and there will never be a light there.

I don't spend my time complaining about it. Am only mentioning it because there is so much griping about how people on County roads supposedly get great services. They really don't.

Kathy
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#5
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH

For those who think County roads get treated so well --
My County road is driven daily by tourists and tour buses as well as resident tourists and four miles worth of residents. Hasn't had any road surface work done in the seven years I've lived on it, and wasn't in great shape when I got here. It finally got a restriping after seven years and the stripe was totally gone.

It has no shoulder, no room for bikes or pedestrians to use it, none of those things people complain the private roads lack.

The turn out onto the highway is dangerous and there will never be a light there.

I don't spend my time complaining about it. Am only mentioning it because there is so much griping about how people on County roads supposedly get great services. They really don't.

Kathy


I think the complaint isn't that county roads get "great" services, it is that the "private" roads get NONE. The wealthier neighborhoods in Kona, Kohala, and Hilo all seem to have very nice roads though.

Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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#6
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH

...griping about how people on County roads supposedly get great services. They really don't.

Kathy


The point is not about County roads being great or not.
The issue is equity.
People in private subdivisions pay for their roads AND for County roads.
Gas tax. Property tax. Motor Vehicle weight tax and registration fees. None of it goes to the roads in those subdivisions and the people who live in those subdivisions pay just as much as other folks -- maybe more given the long drive from most of Puna to Hilo and higher gas consumption.
Furthermore, those alleged 'private' roads are open to and used by the public, including "tourists".
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#7
Yes but I paid 200K more for the same house I could have gotten in HPP. And I pay more property taxes because my assessment is greater, probably twice as much. So I fail to see the equity in that. 200K would pay a lot of road fees.

When I looked at HPP, I was very clear that I was saving money by taking on the roads and all that.

When all the homes in East Hawai'i cost the same, I'll be right there with you saying we should all have equally good roads. Until then, where's the equity indeed?
[Smile]

Btw, my road is driven on by just about every tourist who comes to the island. There is no road in HPP that remotely gets the all day every day tourist traffic mine does as a designated scenic route in every guidebook. Not to mention cruise ship passengers by the van load.

There are other private road situations too, not just Puna. Hamakua has the most roads in limbo with failing bridges on the island.

I had two places in Kohala with private dirt roads. One the entire cost was split between two properties. The other had lots of houses on it and was used by the public a lot, went to one of the only fishing and surf spots up there. Super dusty road.

Shoots, there was one road in Mendocino County where we lived five miles in on all dirt and ruts that were two feet deep that would eat a wheel. Owners pitched in andr graded and graveled once a year.

Never heard anyone complain that the County didn't maintain it. They de know the deal when they bought the property, and they knew there would never be power up there too.

Did they pay property Taxes too for the County roads leading to the private roads, which were also dirt for five miles? Of course they did.

How much money is going into 130? Should I complain because I rarely drive it, but my road is getting no love?

Another place I almost bought was in Wa'a Wa'a. I had no expectations of a better road. The property was a lovely price and it came with road fees.

I just feel like the total cost is where equity should come in. Property cost + fees + taxes for similar level of property.

Actually I don't think equity apples with real estate all that much. That's why we shop around and compare ALL the aspects of location, infrastructure, weather, services, scenery, neighborhood, property taxes, utility costs, wear and tear on vehicles, time spent on the road to get where we want to go, and so forth, right along with the value inside the property lines.

If it makes sense, we consider it. If it's not enough value for the money we keep looking. We buy the whole package. And if we forget to factor in something important, we lose. I always miss something, and it's no one else's fault but my own, unless someone outright lies to me-- and that happens too.

I don't understand all the "it's not fair" griping from people who were very happy to get super affordable property.

Kathy
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#8
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH

Yes but I paid 200K more for the same house I could have gotten in HPP. And I pay more property taxes because my assessment is greater, probably twice as much. So I famto see the equity in that. 200K would pay a lot of road fees.

When I looked at HPP, I was very clear that I was saving money by taking on the roads and all that.

When all the homes in East Hawai'i cost the same, I'll be right there with you saying we should all have equally good roads. Until then, where's the equity indeed?
[Smile]

Kathy


But property taxes are not the main way roads are funded, and the residents of private subdivisions are being stuck paying twice, with fuel taxes and road fees. I drive on my "private" road to a state Highway all the way to work, then on a state highway to the grocery store on the way home, if I drive 50 miles a week on county roads it would be a miracle. But every time I fill up my gas tank I pay that tax, then my subdivision bills me for road maintenance too.

An added piece to all this is the way Hilo homes are assessed, I've found many many homes in Hilo with very low tax assessments in spite of a history of selling prices that were triple or quadruple the "assessed value." At the same time the assessors were ramping up the assessments on homes in HPP and other Puna subdivisions to much higher prices than their recent selling prices. I think the old boys club knows that Hilo has a lot of long term residents whose families have lived here for generations, and assumed that the Puna homes were new arrivals they could safely tax aggressively.

The county allowed these subdivisions with private roads to be permitted and built, in ways that were not legal at the time, and continue to stick current residents of all of Hawaii county with the mess that has left.

Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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#9
Hilo is an old town. Those houses in Hilo weren't born with paved roads. For many if not most the pavement came later.
Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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#10
The bill from Willy Wille is to *DECREASE* county tax revenue by a huge amount. The number $1300 per lot was thrown in by the reporter to indicate that would be the baseline which would be *CUT DOWN* to something lower, since much less tax revenue would be going into the county general fund.

So, the Punaputian squabbling over the fairness of scraps is a good dog fight to watch. Citizens should be watching the county council very closely now, there will be all kinds of attempts at slipping in hidden personal agendas now.

"Mahalo nui Pele, 'ae noho ia moku 'aina" - kakahiaka oli
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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