TripAdvisor

[Carey]

I have done a bit of conservation research work in the summit area for the University.

If someone is using a MANAGEMENT PLAN and stating that it is not allowed/legal, that would be incorrect.

The Mauna Kea Management Plan is just a PART of the Mauna Kea Science Reserve Master Plan, and is a TOOL that allows the combined agencies the ability to MANAGE the resource.
"In 1995, a joint revised management plan was adopted by the University of Hawai`i and
the DLNR. This plan clarifies and redefines the rights and responsibilities of the two organizations in the Science Reserve. The UH retained the following rights and responsibilities:
1. Mauna Kea Science Reserve Access:
• The right to control, maintain and manage access in the Science Reserve; including the Access Road and associated parking areas.
• The right to limit vehicle type or impose driving requirements.
• The right to restrict hours of access.
• The right to close the road for maintenance, hazards, snow removal or road repairs.
• The right to ask others to assist in crowd control (similar to deputizing).
• The right to require liability waivers.
• The right to comment on commercial permit applications.
• The right to control visitor activities around astronomy facilities"
from: Mauna Kea Science Reserve Master Plan: Issues and Opportunities Page VIII - 7
http://www.hawaii.edu/maunakea/8_issues.pdf

In a management plan, permitted use is not restricted, unless a restriction of permitted use is put in place.

A restriction allows the managing agencies the ability to place a restriction of use, if needed, and in the MKMP; table 7-6, the hours restriction would ALLOW the University to restrict night time use IF NEEDED ("University may install gates or chains to prevent unauthorized
vehicles, after-hours access to the summit")

"Table 7-6. Permitted General Uses(14)
Permitted Uses/ Stated Restrictions on Use/ Conditions /Responsibility
Public Access During daylight hours (30 min before
sunrise and 30 min after sunset)/ University may install gates or chains to prevent unauthorized
vehicles, after-hours access to the summit/Barrier will be located in
such a way that visitors may safely turn around/
DLNR/University"

At this time, there are no "gates or chains" placed on the access to the summit, so the use is not restricted.

[freespirit]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wao nahele kane

There's nothing wrong with driving rental cars on gravel roads and it isn't a violation of a rental contract.
Gravel is one of the earliest paving methods. People have just become accustom to it meaning asphalt, concrete or paving stones.
What does paved mean legally?
According to the legal definition -
To pave is to cover with stones or brick, or other suitable material, so as to make a level or convenient surface for horses, carriages, or foot-passengers, and a sidewalk is paved when it is laid or flagged with flat stones, as well as when paved with brick, as is frequently done. In re Phillips, 00 N. Y. 22; Ruell v. Ball, 20 Iowa, 282; Harrisburg v. Segelbaum, 151 Pa. 172, 24 Atl. 1070, 20 L. R. A. S34.

Source: http://thelawdictionary.org/pave/

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Wow thats interesting - wonder if anyone has ever used that defense in court if a vehicle was damaged by driving on a gravel road? I guess the only thing the rental contract states is no driving on unpaved roads so a gravel road is considered a paved road then according to the lawdictionary. Great research. [8D]

[PaulW]

Thanks Carey. It's obvious to anyone who goes up there that there are no signs forbidding driving after dark.
People go up there often to view the sunrise.

SheaG seems to be incapable of admitting she's wrong, even when faced with overwhelming evidence.
Some "Expert".

[Wao nahele kane]

Now the question remains; are rental cars prohibited to drive to the top of Mauna Kea? I would imagine that it depends on the rental car agency. Typically the rental contracts will outline exactly which roads are off limits. I recall one of our contracts many years ago verbally described the roads that were off limits and I recall one being the coastal dirt roads beyond south point to green sands and other like type roads in the area. The road to south point was not off limits. They may have had a restriction from the visitors center at Mauna Kea to the top where the observatories are located. Ie... do not drive beyond Mauna Kea visitors rest center at Mauna Kea.
I doubt any contracts state that all roads that are not paved in asphalt, cement, paver stone or brick are off limits.
I think both KK and SheaG are confused in what applies to what and should stop giving out advice in that area beyond simply recommending they read their rental car contracts carefully as I doubt all have the same policies with regard to all the various roads on the island. Some might even disallow driving to the visitors center at Mauna Kea, while some don't restrict it.
Simply stating it's okay to drive to the visitors center but not beyond opens them up for liability should a rental contract say it's not acceptable to drive to the visitors center.

[Rob Tucker]

Top of Mauna Kea? I believe there is a point (perhaps the visitor's station?) after which the road is posted for four wheel drive only.

Someone confirm??

[jackson]

There is no "law" that you can't take a two wheel drive to the summit. But how stupid can one get? Plenty of standard rentals have met their demise on the mountain. Transmissions burn out going up and brakes burn going down. Really, really bad idea.
As far as driving up or down after dark, just face the mountain from the South after dark and watch all the headlight descending throughout the night. KathyH and SheaG are on some kind of weird, demented ego thingy. What kind of life is it to write on TripAdvisor all day? It might be the only place these people are listened to. They both need to get out and experience the amazing place they love to write about.

[PaulW]

Yes, there is, as far as I can recall from 2 weeks ago. Just beyond the Visitor Center. I can't remember the wording.
Plenty of 2WD cars to be found at the summit though, including convertibles.

[jackson]

I believe that sign (four wheel drive only beyond this point - or something similar) is an advisory and not a "law."
The last time I went up, there was one of those nice new Chevy Malibus or something like that. His wheels were spinning on one of the early hairpins and he realized he couldn't back up or go forward. He kept trying until he burnt the transmission.

[Rob Tucker]

I've been up that road with a 4x several times and thought the drive was rather scary... spectacular but scary driving.

[Anxious Messiah]

Was up on Mauna Kea a few weeks ago for the sunrise and the road looked to be recently graded. The 4WD is an advisory only, not a requirement.

As for the rental car issue, my brother specifically asked the agent about going to the top of MK and was told that while they advise against it, ultimately there is no law against driving to the top. Any damages not covered will be the renter's responsibility. My brother having full coverage on his personal vehicles declined the insurance since his insurance company told him he would be covered as if it was his own personal vehicle and no laws prohibiting driving on an unpaved road exist.

YMMV



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