Police Encounter With Hawaiian National in Pahoa

[Adam-I-Am]

The Philippines gained its independence from the USA in 1946. But by 1946 the actual "Hawaiian" population in Hawaii was too small, I guess, to do so.

[Rob Tucker]

quote:

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I've been in DHHL offices and didn't see much in the way of Hawaiian faces, at least in middle management.

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Here is the commission http://dhhl.hawaii.gov/hhc/
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My experience is that the DHHL Commissioners have little to do with day-to-day affairs and are largely (I hope) unaware of a lot that goes on.

[MarkP]

I share imagtek's point of view as expressed above.

[MattKarma]

quote:

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Originally posted by imagtek

I apologize sincerely and humbly in advance for any offence.

But the notion that a militarily defenceless Kingdom of Hawaii would have experienced anything other than invasion and occupation in the late 19th and early 20th century is a fantasy. Any serious reading of the history of this era indicates that, in the event of American disavowal of any security interest, Hawaii would have been promptly militarily occupied by Japan, Russia or France. A Japanese occupation would have been particularly disastrous for Hawaiians because late 19th century Japan was territorially expansionist and brutally racist. The estimated body count of Japanese occupation in China and Korea alone during this period numbers over a millions. Perhaps native Hawaiian culture might have fared better under Russian, and certainly French occupation than US occupation, but we will never know. Ideally, Hawaii should have been made an independent and sovereign protectorate of the US, but that presumes the best of all possible worlds and did not happen. In the brutal, racist, real world as it existed over a century ago, the notion that Hawaii would have stood alone as the single ancient society in human history occupying a strategic location to escape colonial occupation is simply not plausible. I do not defend this on any sort of moral grounds. Like any civilized person today I find past injustices and their motivations appalling.

Human history is ugly. There is no other word. It is easy to cast judgement in hindsight, and the temptation to do so is high. Many feel we should revisit history and right wrongs, but life has moved on after a century and, world court or not, that is not as morally straightforward as one might think. I'm only expressing an opinion based upon a lifetime of study of human history from a specific cultural perspective. Others may come to contrary conclusions from other perspectives and their opinions are no less valid or worthy than mine.

I know there are people whom I respect deeply who may be offended by my opinions and all I can say is that I apologize where that is the case.

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Yeh, very balanced and insightfull POV, Mark.

As for me, I can recycle the answer I gave the nice ladies at the Hawaiian National Table in at the Kau Coffee festival:

quote:

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Well, back in those days, it was OK

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Covers the range pretty much; history sees a lot of conquest and conflict that certainly seemed right to somebody at the time, but looks vicious and sad now.

[Chas]

I agree with imagtek's post. Very well written.

As to opihikao's comment:

"There needs to be a solid plan implemented to avoid this type of discussion/confrontation. As the Hawaiian Kingdom moves forward on the international court level, and the United States moves towards Federal recognition for Hawaiian nationals, this must be part of the negotiations (if that is a proper term)."

I also agree with this. However, I feel that the guy in the video doesn't help the native Hawaiians cause. I can't really put my finger on it, but even though I feel that yes, we screwed the Hawaiians over and there should be something done about it, his behavior just turned me off. So much so that I admit I didn't watch the whole thing.

[flyingsurfer]

imagetek
Good info. I would like to add that Spain wanted Hawaii.
Queen Liliuokalani even said better the United States did
Than the other country's that wanted Hawaii.
President Cleveland would have returned Hawaii if he had been reelected. The US was deeply divided on this. Hawaii would have then come under the protection of the US.

[The Mexican]

History is history. There are a lot of states included in "The United States of America" with names like "California", "Arizona", "Texas", "New Mexico" and so forth that at one time were called "Mexico." Mexicans don't gripe about this. They just walk across the lines that were drawn and carry on life as usual. We Mexicans have taken it a step past Ghandi even, by just procreating and peacefully reclaiming those lands and making sure we vote when the time comes.

How long before we vote in a Mexican president?

Personally, I'm looking forward to the day the public drinking fountains are overflowing with free Horchata.

And now... back to some Bailey's Irish Cream and a few boxes of Gingerbread Cookies. It's almost Christmas, you know.

X

[Jeffhale]

I've chatted with Uncle Robert a time or two, maybe more about His whole Hawaiian annexation thing. More with the people around him, working or freeloading at his house/site..

The talk behind his back is astounding and I seriously doubt he would condone this kids actions.

First hand query with some of the people around him,, not his direct family, but others laugh and scoff what he actually believes verses their rumors.

He's absolutely no problems with the US or statehood too.

He'd also offered to bless my property. and just as his back was turned, others, I won't mention names, did, in as much call him a fool and hypocrite.

Moreover, it's a cultural expression, salvaging native history.

However the things that leave his premises, abuses in his namesake, I don't believe Uncle Robert is fully aware of or, has his blessings. .

He's an incredible man and wrongly named in cases such as this kid and his attempts to beat the system, freeload.

I've also no doubt that, had that kid not made it beyond obvious his video taping would been seen by others, if not more but that officer or two who yanked the other kid out of the truck, would have beaten them. Brutalized the jerks.. Don't kid your selves, our cops have a license to cuff and stuff by any means the can get away with.. AND MANY DO IT FREQUENTLY!!

any time there's no witness those kids would have been beaten, brutalized, verses that highly unusual out come..

An out-come in which, unless you've got cameras they can't break or remove, was resolved, regardless whether they were freeloading, cheating the system,, an ending where punishment is not issued until the courts dictate it..


This is not just about Hawaiian culture, it's one way to protect your self from brutality.

without it, those kids would be playing the system for another get out of jail card on claims of brutality.

At any time in any place within the US you see a cop speeding without cause, texting too, changing lanes without blinkers, or of the several ordinary violations they'd cuff and stuff you for??

That's the one who'll beat you when nobody knows.. his word against yours is a 99.999999999% success rate for our "Proud to serve and deflect officers'

Not all, certainly not all, but there's plenty on their football team. many would be surprised, no doubt very surprised.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Clearly the police realized the encounter was being filmed. If they really wanted to cuff and beat the two guys in the truck, they would have cuffed them, beat them, and stomped on the camera. The evidence would be gone, just like that. I still believe the officers showed great restraint.

[Wao nahele kane]

A lot of video can be streamed live upload to a public displayed account from a cellphone. So stomping on the camera would only end up uploaded for all to see. Damning evidence that can't be stomped on by an officer in the field.