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What is the difference between:
1) a road being open and
2) a road being closed but no signs saying it's closed, no mention of it on the related websites
(
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/visit...ummit.html ) and nobody enforcing that supposed closure?
Sorry, but my personal experience has shown me that the road is not closed after sunset.
I think most people who go there know this. We have a regular here on Punaweb (TomK) who
works for one of the observatories and he has confirmed that the road is not closed at sunset.
The "Experts" don't say on TripAdvisor that the road is closed at sunset in theory only (maybe).
They tell people it is closed at sunset, period. No matter how you look at it, this is not the truth.
Now, everyone can make mistakes. What they choose to do when their mistake is pointed out is another thing.
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quote:
Originally posted by lavalava
E kala mai i a`u Tutu.
Maika'i. (Beeg kine hug!) [
]
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From the Office of Mauna Kea Management website :
"Driving: Four-wheel drive vehicles are recommended for travel to the summit. Check the status of road closures and the weather forecast before coming to Maunakea. Night-time travel to and from the summit is discouraged (½ hour after sunset to ½ hour before sunrise)."
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Well, Paul, you may "feel" that the summit isn't closed at night, but the rangers go around telling everyone to leave right after sunset, explaining to people that the summit is closed 30 minutes after sunset. I know this from personal experience.
So when the management plan says the summit is closed at night, the agency in charge of management of the summit says it is closed at night, and there are rangers who round up everybody and get them off the summit after sunset, I'm not sure why anyone would try to make the point that it isn't closed just because there isn't a sign and there isn't enforcement to try to stop people who might try to sneak up thereafter dark.
Obviously, they just don't have the resources to do a lot of enforcement, and there isn't much reason why the public would try to go up there after dark, anyway, so why prioritize funds for that? But I'm sure that if a ranger encountered someone up there after dark, they would tell them to leave.
Why all the angst over the definition of "closed?"
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I don't know this for certain, but the rangers probably leave at dark, just as they leave the entrance booths at Volcano National Park. It's a long drive back up there in the dark if a visitor gets into trouble, so it's easier to ask them to leave.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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I don't "feel" anything, someone who knows more about this than most people has stated that such is the case.
I've also seen it for myself - no signs, no gate, nothing on the website, no rangers telling me to leave.
There is no "sneaking up" after dark, it's an open road.
"But I'm sure that if a ranger encountered someone up there after dark, they would tell them to leave."
How sure?
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Best star gazing is at night if you can handle to cold.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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I've stayed out of the other two threads. They were becoming a dog pile and emotion was overwhelming any form of perspective. In my opinion (worth exactly what you paid for it) Kathy had indeed become somewhat biased in the opinions and advice she was giving on TA. I tested some of the things people were saying, namely that opposing views were deleted and accounts blocked, and found that when I respectfully posted information that was more pro Puna it did not get deleted. I don't know what content had been deleted from other posters or how respectfully they presented their opinions.
Punaweb has become a meaner place in the last couple of years and I'm sad to see it happen. When I first joined I was a complete n00b regarding the Puna district and I received a lot of very good advice from helpful and respectful posters. Not everyone agreed 100% with each other but they could voice their opinions without a flame war ensuing.
I do have a few questions for Kathy:
1. The Mauna Kea night time thing - in practice as many of us know, you can drive up to star gaze. What is the reason behind advising visitors that it is closed when for all practical purposes it isn't. I could see advising people to avoid the trail in FF that leads to Pu'u'o'o, which is officially closed but not patrolled much at all as that is a serious safety issue and I wouldn't want to feel responsible for leading anyone astray even if I might be tempted to make that hike myself from time to time.
2. Rental insurance. A number of people say they have checked with their insurers regarding coverage on gravel roads (like many of the subdivisions for example) and been told they are covered. Might it not be better to tell travellers to check with their insurance providers for a definitive answer?
3. Lava risk. We all know it's there, but perhaps we could let people know what the uncertainties are and possible time frames. The stalling of the flow front and breakout further back have certainly made any prognostication difficult at best. I think pointing out the possibilities in a balanced way would allow them to make up their own minds. Should we really tell people to change their reservations or should we present as much information as we can and let them decide?
4. Deleted posts and banned accounts. What's your side of that story?
Thank you for coming here and telling your side of the story. I would be happy to see Puna Talk return to the Aloha it used to be known for.
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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There's a Mauna Kea thread on TA. Try posting your opinion there about the road and let's see how long it lasts.
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Information accuracy :
Posted on Sept 15
Well, in about a week, visitors would need to park in Kea'au and walk to Kapoho, so I don't think it matters right now if they are open. There is a big cleanup at the tidepools going on that I will post about when I get time.
