PGV plans new well

[snorkle]

Interesting OB, which one(s)?

[Obie]

Here is a video of Ormat and another plant. Apparently the same outdated ,leaky ,stinky nasty technology is viewed differently in places other than Puna.
Note that no one is wearing gas masks or hazmat suits.No one ranting and raving either !!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEdWXbn35kQ

[Obie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by snorkle

Interesting OB, which one(s)?

---

Now deactivated but it operated for many years next to a residential area.

http://www.usa.com/frs/hawaii-electric-l...ation.html

[PunaMauka2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakine

"The history of geothermal in Hawaii varies a bit based on who's telling the story.."

".. but it does do one good to try and gain some perspective on how we got here."

The original Geothermal Energy.. which I believe was the first extensive study of geothermal in Hawaii is here:

http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bit...energy.pdf

and is well worth the read for the development of an understanding of what's going on.

Further, Jim Kauahikaua's (USGS) Volcanic Activity and Ground Deformation Hazard Analysis for the Hawaii Geothermal Project Environmental Impact Statement goes into greater detail from a volcanological perspective, and can be found here:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1994/0553/report.pdf

There is also a short paper, entitled The History of Geothermal Development in Hawaii, by Puna Pono Alliance here:

http://punapono.com/docs/eddocs/3.pdf

that simplifies, but still gives a historical overview of geothermal energy development in Hawaii.

And of course Google is filled with others and it's worth the effort to read through some of them if one wants to develop an educated opinion on the subject.

---

like the idea of reading up a bit on the topic from an array of quality sources. particularly interested in that UH Manoa document.

i wish the Punapono one could provide a good source for added views. unfortunately it feels as if Punapono is virtually bursting at the seams in it's language trying to persuade the reader at every opportunity with viewpoints heavily activated into an agenda approach. not confident in trusting the validity of many of the statements. i don't want to be propagandized to, thank you. perhaps there is something with a more legitimate educational quality out there to represent a more cautious or opposing position.

[snorkle]

That is interesting indeed. I see HERE that the Shipman generation Plant was ranked in 60-70th percentile for "Dirtiest/worst facilities" in the US in 2002. In a tsunami zone, no less.

Maybe they learned something from their folly. Thanks for the tip.

[ironyak]

geochem - The eruption did not start until after the land swap
Thank you to dakine for the various summaries of the history of geothermal development. To clarify the point above (from Hawai'i Tribune Herald):

Dec 1982 - Jan 1983: BNLR indicates likely approval of plans by Campbell to develop geothermal plant in Kahauale'a despite concerns voiced by residents.

Jan 3-9, 1983: The first rift eruption since 1977 begins adjacent to the proposed drilling area and within days covers several proposed well sites.

Feb 25, 1983: BLNR grants approval for exploratory activities at Kahauale'a while requiring extensive air and water monitoring for noise, H2S, SO2, mercury, lead, arsenic, radon, and total suspended particles.

Dec 1985 - State of Hawai`i exchanges approximately 27,800 acres of ceded lands, that included the Wao Kele O Puna Natural Area Reserve and other Puna lands on the for approximately 25,800 acres of land at Kahauale'a then owned by the Estate of James Campbell.


geochem - the scientific papers posted earlier - are completely ignored
The two studies focus on H2S only, not any of the other possible concerns listed in approval for Kahauale'a development. They also focus on only 2 health impacts: cognitive function and asthma. While very useful, these studies leave much to be considered.

Neurotoxicology and Teratology
""The results provide no evidence that chronic H2S exposure, at the ambient levels found in and around Rotorua, is associated with impairment of cognitive function or mood."

Are there established ambient H2S values for Leilani that can be compared to Rotorua? (note that this is not just at PGV)

Associations of Ambient Hydrogen Sulfide Exposure with Self-Reported Asthma and Asthma Symptoms
"Our study has found no evidence that H2S exposure at levels found in Rotorua is a risk factor for asthma or asthma symptoms."

"Irrespective of the relationship between H2S and asthma, there are other potential health outcomes from hydrogen sulfide exposure, including possible neurologic and neuropsychologic effects and effects on the eye, particularly cataract. These also need to be investigated."

Does anyone know what monitoring and special conditions were required when PGV was approved and how or why they might have differed from the monitoring requirements at Kahauale'a?

[ironyak]

For those interested:

Geothermal Collection - definitive source for 1100+ official documents. Hearings, permits, reports, etc. for all geothermal projects
http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/ha...0524/12279

2012 thread - good for recent history, links, and perspectives:
http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14745

2013 Independent Geothermal Public Health Assessment
http://www.accord3.com/pg68.cfm

[Punatic007]

quote:

---

Originally posted by PunaMauka2

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakine

"The history of geothermal in Hawaii varies a bit based on who's telling the story.."

".. but it does do one good to try and gain some perspective on how we got here."

The original Geothermal Energy.. which I believe was the first extensive study of geothermal in Hawaii is here:

http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bit...energy.pdf

and is well worth the read for the development of an understanding of what's going on.

Further, Jim Kauahikaua's (USGS) Volcanic Activity and Ground Deformation Hazard Analysis for the Hawaii Geothermal Project Environmental Impact Statement goes into greater detail from a volcanological perspective, and can be found here:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1994/0553/report.pdf

There is also a short paper, entitled The History of Geothermal Development in Hawaii, by Puna Pono Alliance here:

http://punapono.com/docs/eddocs/3.pdf

that simplifies, but still gives a historical overview of geothermal energy development in Hawaii.

And of course Google is filled with others and it's worth the effort to read through some of them if one wants to develop an educated opinion on the subject.

---

like the idea of reading up a bit on the topic from an array of quality sources. particularly interested in that UH Manoa document.

i wish the Punapono one could provide a good source for added views. unfortunately it feels as if Punapono is virtually bursting at the seams in it's language trying to persuade the reader at every opportunity with viewpoints heavily activated into an agenda approach. not confident in trusting the validity of many of the statements. i don't want to be propagandized to, thank you. perhaps there is something with a more legitimate educational quality out there to represent a more cautious or opposing position.

---

Punapono works in conjunction with Bob Patricci(sp?)who won a lawsuit against geothermal as an adjoining neighbor. He seems quite bright and said he works with geothermal education all over the world. Punapono seemed to have cultural/religious reasons for opposing geothermal in a historically sacred rainforest.

Unfortunately when you are looking at possible big money making ventures, private and government documentation can be selective and biased. For example, state of Hawaii still to this day has not done conclusive testing on the effects of vog on human health. They have not yet addressed the myriad of possible pollutants including heavy metals in the mix in any study to date. Why? It would scare away the tourists? I don't know.

I spoke with the head of Clean Air branch of the Healthy dept in Honolulu recently in regards to which type of air purifier would be best to use given the current pollutants. It was so bizarre, he said he doesn't recommend different types it's up the individual to decide??? I again asked for non-patented methodology, don't recommend brands just which of the many types of air purifiers works for vog and smoke. He didn't have a clue or had a strange hidden reason not to tell me. He gave me zero advice or help on even understanding what we are breathing here.

Good luck on finding your unbiased studies.

[kalakoa]

Unfortunately when you are looking at possible big money making ventures, private and government documentation can be selective and biased.

Such as when creating massive subdivisions in a lava zone?

[leilanidude]

Bob Petricci(sp?)who won a lawsuit against geothermal as an adjoining neighbor.

This guy then "moved" about 1/2 mile away from his "poisoned property", continuing to complain about PGV. Fraud.