Does nighttime drilling ban apply to PGV?

[ckg]

I wonder how the royalties and regulatory environment compares to other places like Ormat's home state of Nevada? I wonder if there are so many hands in the cookie jar and how well it works over there? Seems like a lot of "vested" interests to effect rate change.

[kalakoa]

the law would not affect PGV's current Geothermal Resource Permit

As far as I know, PGV gets its permission from the State; at one point a rule change "accidentally" removed County's oversight, not sure if that was ever "fixed".

a special law to where they can't buy back the same house more than once

No restrictions. Obviously, selling the "reclaimed" house just starts the problem all over again, and the "buyout-ee" is not required to actually move away from PGV.

said they never knew of geothermal until after they moved in

Stronger real estate disclosure rules might help somewhat. If it were up to me, prospective buyers in Puna would have to take a class and pass a test first -- if only to protect the rest of us from their frivolous lawsuits.

[Obie]

Ironyak,you stated this in your post.
"Comparisons to geothermal plants elsewhere (Iceland, Germany, etc) tend to overlook that these developments are done with clear governmental oversight and legal requirements, including emission controls and adequate noise suppression. Unfortunately, this is not how geothermal has been done here."

Here is a link to a guidebook that explains the process in Hawaii:

http://energy.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uplo...debook.pdf

Some of it is now outdated but it shows there is plenty of oversight and PGV met all of the requirements.

[kalakoa]

there is plenty of oversight and PGV met all of the requirements

Per document, "oversight" is mostly a Federal and State function.

Also per document, State LUC maintains control over "low productivity" Ag lands such as those occupied by PGV.

[Guest]

If I may ask a few questions regarding if and when Ormat drills its new well.
Anyone know the depth in meters that needs to be reached by Ormat for this new well to be completed or successful?.
Anyone know how much of Puna's underground water or reservoirs is currently being used by geothermal, say in gallons per minute or daily, not sure how deep they pull and return this water, or if they do?
The chemicals mixed and used in the process to pull steam from below us are known as?, can these chemicals and gasses cause any extra heating of our underground water reservoir?
With so many(hundreds of thousands) of Ohia forest trees dying and fish kills in lower Puna is it possible that the lower ground water has heated up an extra degree or more, could this cause extra steam to rise through the porous lava tubes and attack sensitive roots like the ohia or coral reefs?
Without any real oversight or short and long term health or environmental studies how can one say geothermal is NOT causing such NIMBY questions as mine?.

[leilanidude]

http://www.ormat.com/oec

Drawing at the bottom of the page.

The typical well here seems to be about 1.5 miles down. This is far below any groundwater sources. Steam (geothermal fluids) is pumped up and later pumped back down a second well (re-injection well) for it to be reheated and subsequently used again and again.

There is nothing happening to the groundwater nor is geothermal energy killing Ohia trees.

[Guest]

Thank you leilanidude for the great answers to my questions. Maybe we need to know a little more about the reinjection wells, how deep are they were they man made or natural, and how big are these water holding reservoirs? From my understanding steam and gasses naturally find their way through this rock from deeper depths. So that's what makes me think that the holding wells and or old used wells could leak poisonous steam through our rock like a cesspool. On the mainland the steam or gas would work its way through the mud boils, but here we have cracks and tubes that go down hundreds and thousands of feet.

[ironyak]

Originally posted by ckg
I wonder how the royalties and regulatory environment compares to other places like Ormat's home state of Nevada? I wonder if there are so many hands in the cookie jar and how well it works over there?

Some quick numbers on the differences in royalties (regulatory differences are much more difficult to compare). Note that Hawai'i uses an older formula based on the value of the resource while other states have moved to a percentage based on geothermal income:

http://www.hnei.hawaii.edu/sites/dev.hne...202013.pdf Page 15
Hawai'i: Determining and Collecting Royalties: Current administrative rules provide that 10-20% of the gross amount or value of the geothermal resource produced shall be paid to the state. The methodology presently adopted by BLNR is based upon the federal Mineral Management Services’ approach using accepted formulas of revenue less allowable deductions patterned after federal mining leases and experience.

http://www02.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/m...its-steam/
Nevada: In addition to the lease income, the state will receive a portion of royalties on geothermal power plants. The current royalty rates, set by the federal government, are 1.75 percent of the gross income for the first 10 years of a project and 3.5 percent after that.

http://www.akbizmag.com/Alaska-Business-...rgy-Bills/
SB 243 assists companies in developing geothermal resources discovered in commercial quantities on state land by lifting the 10 to 15 percent royalty payment obligation currently in state statute. SB 243 instead levies the current federal royalty of 1.75% for the first 10 years, and 3.5% thereafter on geothermal resources.

Ormat has a 36,000 acre lease in Alaska for geothermal development.
http://www.ormat.com/news/latest-items/o...egislature

[leilanidude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gypsy69

Thank you leilanidude for the great answers to my questions. Maybe we need to know a little more about the reinjection wells, how deep are they were they man made or natural, and how big are these water holding reservoirs? From my understanding steam and gasses naturally find their way through this rock from deeper depths. So that's what makes me think that the holding wells and or old used wells could leak poisonous steam through our rock like a cesspool. On the mainland the steam or gas would work its way through the mud boils, but here we have cracks and tubes that go down hundreds and thousands of feet.

---

Re-injection wells are drilled just like the other wells, and lined. They are also monitored to detect any pressure losses just like the main wells. When a well is taken out of service, it is filled with concrete and capped. No gas or steam will ever come back out of it.

There are actually two types of geothermal extraction being used at PGV. The newer one is the one that I posted the link to.

Those gases are natural and already deep in the earth. They already naturally come UP to the surface, all over the East Rift Zone - where you live - and hence the issues with odd smells from time to time. Any gas or steam from the plant that leaked would go UP, not down into the ground.

[snorkle]

So.... When the wells are capped; the steel sleeve they are lined with doesn't corrode, allowing gas to escape?