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quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
Mr Maise, love your slice of paradise. Spent a couple years of my youth and prime on those walls or fortresses you are referring to. Yes they were works of art, yet I had no vision of the finish back then(to young). The days were spent in the heat, with no easy jobs, we had some really cool guys who worked well together. We used slogans like, if one man can move the rock then two could lay it. Much of the face rocks we used had harvesting stories attached long before we had to pick the spots to place them. The hidden grout method, with those lava plates really shows the variety of colors and beauty within the lava rock.
Opihikao, how can this community come to some middle ground with geothermal, regarding this nighttime drilling headache we all are sharing in?.
Safety issues for everyone involved including community and drilling employees should be one of many priorities going forward.
The extra cost associated with complying to the county law by not drilling at night should not be of great concern to our very patient community, this should have been discussed and planned for by the geothermal lawyers and the drilling contractors giving their bids before arriving or starting. Tired of this very large Ormat corporation or company playing dumb or ignorant, while our communities aloha and good nature continue to be taken advantage of. As a community, once again we did nothing wrong to deserve the backlash of media negativity caused from their non compliance of Law.jmo.
gypsy69, don't have the answer to that question, albeit still searching (for the answer). Perhaps new technology combined with less lawsuits, will allow for "middle ground".
This existing plant is old. No question. PGV/ORMAT has not been an ideal "neighbor" over the years. No question, again.
However, the manner in which this has been handled by all concerned is deplorable. For example, there has not been transparency anywhere, given the guise of "proprietary information", etc. On the Federal, State and County level, every division is call a "LIAR" (ie. DOH, etc.) by past Plaintiffs and future potential Plaintiffs.
The extreme positions of both sides is concerning. Lawsuits continue the discussion, not resolve it. The first lawsuits filed by over 70 residents did not equate to a "public solution". The plaintiffs took money, and didn't finish the job: CLOSE THE PLANT DOWN if it was so bloody bad.
A very, very wise man (geothermal expert, scientist, not employed by PGV or any other developer) stated:
"In those days (when the PGV/True Geothermal plant was built), it was dialing a phone. Today, the technology (geothermal) is like an IPhone." I believe this is true, and also believe we need to get the hell off oil.
My keiki and mo'opuna cannot afford to continue with our high HELCO rates. It's not acceptable. Finding the solution takes all of us, without becoming a martyr.
Aloha to your ohana, gypsy69, and hope we find the solution soon. We're burning daylight (and a hell of a lot of oil).
JMO.
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"17-22 Feb., 1993
DOH and PGV receive a large number of noise complaints due to air drilling of well KS-10 which causes PGV to suspend drilling operations several nights."
Do you understand that air drilling is not part of the technology that is used today ?
If industry experts especially those not on the Ormat payroll state it is dangerous to stop at night who are you going to believe ?
Should we believe Pakaololo Bob or an expert ?
Obie, so quick to name call or be so judgemental won't help us come together only further divide. Bob P. Is willing to help and is quite knowledgeable to the profiting ways of his neighbor. If goods folks are to come together and reach some kind of common ground through negotiations, hopefully to avoid suits and courts then Bob P must be included or sitting next to Mike K.
For geothermal to step back right now, stop the intrusion of drilling next to its neighbors of this new well, would allow our county and community time to think rationally rather than react. Going to be very costly for geothermal and county moving forward with the drilling at this point anyway. The truth is this new lava flow has and will continue to change the way things are done in Puna for years to come. Just like these new laws all of us citizens in this very diverse community now are living under(111), we are adjusting and accepting. Geothermal actions going forward breaking laws should be felonies not fines, stealing anything( quality of life, sleep, resources)from this community during such times as these shouldn't be looked at lightly. Most on this forum have thrown the book at much pettier criminals.
24/7 ... How loud are we talking about ??? Is it worse than a new neighbor digging for tank ? Ohana fight ? Rooster haven ?
Will this even be heard over coqui or a (nonhonda) generator ?
Just wondering.
aloha,
pog
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gypsy69
Sorry but I will still take the expert over Bob !
Common ground ideas for going forward.
Someone on the panel I belief Wiley maybe, suggested possible weekends free of drilling. Well that is an idea but not a good one for the keiki's grades or would be morning workers production throughout the week.
Maybe drilling could start at 7A.m on fridays and go through the weekends until 7P.m on Sunday night? During the week the law is followed with extra precautions taken for safety measures and concerns for community and plant employees.
Continuous geothermal drilling can bring added dangers to the nearby residential neighborhoods and or community too? Should I like geothermal share those dangers with you now or later?. Been reading a lot about geothermal drilling and have yet to read anywhere that states stopping and starting the drilling process is not safe, or as safe as continuous drilling. Yes it is not cost effective, but it does allow time to sample, test, and log results to the different depths, gasses, and temperatures reached that can make it dangerous for everyone.
Well another way of showing good faith towards a community you intend on working with or being good neighbors to, Could be to invest in Puna's future?. For every night geothermal NEEDS to break our county law, Portions of the added fines could go directly to area students scholarship funds to help pay for higher education? Or maybe help the few area schools with needed safe rooms, air conditioners, computers, and needed transportation.
The job of drilling this new well needs to get done, the sooner it gets done the safer, better, and more profitable for all involved. All those who stand to make a future profit from this new well and or future wells being drilled at night or continuously at the expense of others sacrifices or way of life, should and could, find ways on how to better the quality of future living for those most affected and or sacrificing today. Lawyers being willing to sit back down, to discuss new developments should be taken as a good sign and allowed time, while hopefully reinstating some kind of faith and trust into moving forward together.
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To try and set the tone, I consider this to be a discussion, not a debate. For my part, I am not interested in scoring points or taking sides, but trying to provide and review as unbiased information as is possible. That said, I do have an opinion like everyone else; I try to give links to the primary sources whenever possible to allow for fact checking.
opihikao - You will note, at the last meeting, Mike Kaleikini also reiterated that stopping drilling enhances the risk for a problem.
Noted and agreed. What the actual degree of added risk is probably a mix of known and unknown factors. For KS-10, drilling was stopped voluntary by PGV for several nights. So at that time, for that well, mitigating the noise issues were chosen over possible safety concerns. Again, stopping on some nights is not the same as stopping every night, and there may be other factors in the 1993 decision.
After being pressed on this topic, Mike K said "The number one reason why we drill around the clock is safety... Theoretically, can we stop? Sure... But we're not going to stop."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqIXrkCaVKw&feature=player_detailpage#t=1208
I have had a few conversations with Mike K and felt that he uses very guarded language and does not reveal anything you don't already know. No doubt he has a difficult job to do and a balance to maintain, but leaving out drilling details (such as converting KS-15, chemicals used in tracer tests, etc) appears evasive and promotes mistrust IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqIXrkCaVKw&feature=player_detailpage#t=831
Safety issue should be foremost for all; apparently it is not.
Strictly playing devil's advocate, the safest option would be not to drill at all. This is not my suggestion, nor a probable solution, but is a rhetorical device to show that the stated logic may also lead to other choices or conclusions.
Drilling has an associated set of risks; some clearly disagree that it is worth it. When those people may disproportionally bear the impacts and risks, such as round-the-clock noise or a blow-out, their opinion should hold additional weight IMHO. There are options for reducing the impacts and risks worth discussing.
{I} believe we need to get the hell off oil. My keiki and mo'opuna cannot afford to continue with our high HELCO rates
Given the current cheap oil, it may not be as easy to both get off oil-generated electricity and reduce rates. HELCO appears to believe this as the current 25MW RFP now has strict 12 cent/kWh cost controls for the geothermal electricity they will purchase.
Personal preference: off-grid solar is a good fit here for residential scale electricity. Yes the grid and baseline generation are needed, but greatly reducing the overall demand limits the need for industrial scale electrical generation. While converting to solar has an energy and monetary cost, it is recouped over a few to several years given our solar exposure. How valuable is getting off of oil and away from the high HELCO rates for you?
One might want to delve into the written testimony at the time, which included DLNR, and other entities involved in the safety aspect.
Thanks for the pointers regarding previous discussions - added to research list. Sorry to rehash. I'm not an expert, but trying to take a different tact than previous discussions.
If there is middle ground, it is unlikely to be found by another round of naming calling, spreading misinformation, or ad hominem attacks on knowledgeable sources. Working on suggestions to provide to our County Council reps may be productive and possible in this forum.
dB levels ??? Previous and maybe next ?
Q: Please.
Will we even notice drilling ????
You guys all talk and links .... But RU there ?
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I can't wait to find out how much all this costs when it's finally over.
Between the lawsuits and the time wasted by Council, DLNR, and PGV ... it might have been cheaper to buy out Leilani, or give everyone solar panels, or just keep importing oil.
Way to squander a resource.
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